1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

Shooting up drugs into PICC Line.

Discussion in 'Pharmacology' started by Markj1122, Feb 23, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Markj1122

    Markj1122 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3
    So SWIMs been wondering this for awhile now. "Can SWIM inject drugs that have not been authorized for use of injection into his PICC Line?. Namely crushed up Oxycodone and also DMT. SWIM has thought of other drugs he could shoot up into the line but mainly is interested in those two (not the combination of). More specifically SWIM wants to know if it is safe to do so in general because he has had his share of line clots in the past with other lines and doesn't want to risk getting an infection but very much desires to experiment with his line.

    ___________________________________________________________________

    ~Markj~
     
  2. chibi curmudgeon

    chibi curmudgeon Gold Finger

    Reputation Points:
    2,077
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,453
    IV medications are sterile for a reason. swiy is already at risk of infection from having the line, period. Is it really worth raising the risk with nonsterile drugs that can be taken in other ways?
     
  3. Jatelka

    Jatelka Psychedelic Shepherdess

    Reputation Points:
    5,668
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,479
    I have no idea why the monkey might have a PICC line, but given that they are generally only put into people who need regular, life-saving drugs via reliable access, the monkey would be an absolute fuck-wit to even consider messing about with it, and risking it blocking with crap

    And on a more personal note: I once spent an extremely irritating 5 hours trying to arrange a replacement line for some idiot who had done exactly what you are proposing: Not ideal when the line was needed for antibiotics every 4 hours to stop a heart valve dissolving from endocarditis
     
  4. Potter

    Potter Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    11,350
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    11,828
    I once had a picc line get infected due to poor care (long story), that was less then fun, I can promise you that. Don't mess with those things.
     
  5. missparkles

    missparkles Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    9,388
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,704
    Yes of course he can, if he has a death wish. Picc lines are not used purely for ease, they're used cos they're needed to sustain life. Now SWIY has to flush this PICC (peripherally inserted central catheter) regularly with saline (or saline heparin solution) to keep the line patent and prevent thrombosis. So why introduce possible clot causing drugs?

    Listen to the advice given, no one is trying to piss on his parade, prevent him getting a buzz, but there have got to be safer ways to achieve this? I imagine you're dealing with some serious shit to have a picc line inserted in the first place, why make it any worse than it is? Stay safe love...ok?

    Sparkles.:vibes:

    Just wanted to add this link for anyone who doesn't know what a picc line is, why it's used and how it works.

    http://picclinenursing.com/
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2010
  6. edarrin

    edarrin

    Reputation Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    Good advice.

    Also depends on the placement of it. Potential is there but the risk:benefit ratio is too high.
     
  7. Potter

    Potter Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    11,350
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    11,828
    I don't think placement matters, aA PICC is inserted in a peripheral vein, such as the cephalic vein, basilic vein, or brachial vein and then advanced through increasingly larger veins, toward the heart until the tip rests in the distal superior vena cava or cavoatrial junction. The insertion point may be different, but it still rests above the heart, not a place to be dumping drugs. Unless you have some medical training in picc line placement edarrin, it's probably best not to be making guesses where lethal infections are a very real possibility.
     
  8. Markj1122

    Markj1122 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3
    Well. SWIM is back and has read every post and has to say that. Its been a long time since swim posted that and since then swim has successfully shooted Hydromorphone, mmm four 'maybe' five time. swim personally had an amazing time every single time and it took swim's pain away instantly it was incredible the things swim was able to do while that affected him. =) Swim has also been doing his own home infusions of an anti-fungal medicine for quite a long time and is very profess and with knowing how to do a self home infusion.

    -Step one- Prepare the end of the line (where swim would be injecting the screw on syringe) with an alcohol swab and let dry for ten to fifteen seconds without air blowing on it
    -Step two- Then connect a 0.9% sodium chloride injection USP (which is just saline) and administer 3cc to flush out any remaining Heparin lock flush, USP from the last infusion
    -Step three-Attach the actual application one would be using. i.e antibiotics, Chemotherpy drugs, or in swims daily basis, "Anti-Fungal" medication.
    -Step four- When the application has been finished going through one will detach the application and must inject another 3cc of 0.9% Sodium Chloride USP (saline) again to flush out the remaining medicine of the application which there will without doubt, some be there left in the entire line.
    -Step five- Detach the saline syringe and attach a Heparin lock flush, USP syringe and inject 3cc as to act as an anti-coagulatant for the line so it does not clot.

    Thats all there is too it and by the end of step five the PICC line should be very clean and under control. Although disasters can happen. Is has never happened for SWIM with his PICC line (which is in his arm). Only with his central lines have things clotted and no one really knows what caused it, swim couldn't and never did "fucked with it".

    I have always used the five steps when injecting a crushed and dissolved Hyrdromorphone pill.

    I would also like to add that swim does have a terminal Cancer that swim might possibly live through and is fighting everyday for swims life and I really hope he pulls through and lives an amazing live cause swim is still only 21 since it struck him at 18.

    Swim finds many things from occasionally shooting the Hydomorphone. An intense rush that is so beautiful and euphoric and is so simply wonderous that he view it with awe (Swim also views this as one of the few very very good things he has to enjoy during his possible last days alive). Swim also finds this to be the greatest form of pain relief from what swim has told me...the pain he suffers from his many tumors and everything is unbearable and just taking the pills doesn't seem like enough for him anymore especially when he needs immediate relief (and especially when he wakes up).
    -Swim also finds the process he goes through to do it is as safe as he can make it even though he doesn't really filter the pill correctly because he doesn't have a wheel or micron filter. But the good news is, is that of ALL narcotic pills, the one swim is doing is

    -Swim also finds that he can not dismiss all warnings he has been given and is still even though he will do it sometimes is still a little scared of anything bad happening. But luckily to my knowledge, nothing bad has happened and I get blood tests from my line every week and it would show if there were an infection in me or the line.

    -Swim would also like to state that he met someone (over the internet) who saw this post when it was posted and spoke with him and he said he had done what I asked about hundreds of times and it really just went fine for him. He too had a purple power PICC like me (which can withstand more of anything going through it).
     
  9. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,795
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,922
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  10. IT-290

    IT-290 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Messages:
    3
    I'm not about to preach to you or tell you what to do with your body. However, I had a very good and dear friend, may he RIP, who had a PICC line. He used to use it to inject himself with all sorts of stuff and got a sever infection. It did not kill him but I'm positive it took some time off of his life :(
     
  11. edarrin

    edarrin

    Reputation Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    SWIM did. Long time ago.
     
  12. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Titanium Member

    Age:
    28
    Reputation Points:
    4,200
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,992
    Might just be a better idea to inject using regular junkie style (hand, arm, feet veins). I mean, fucking with a central iv line could get one into trouble that can't be reversed. If it goes directly to the heart, fuck. Ya know? Maybe one should just get some insulin rig and shoot into their elbow crook or w/e.
     
  13. chibi curmudgeon

    chibi curmudgeon Gold Finger

    Reputation Points:
    2,077
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,453
    It would kind of suck if swiy beat cancer and died from an infection, wouldn't it?

    Look, hydromorphone is available in an IV formulation, and it's reasonable for a cancer patient with a PICC to get that IV. That solution is sterile. A tablet is NOT sterile. Whatever was on the spatula* when the pharm tech counted out swiy's tabs is now in swiy's veins.

    As I said before, people die from line sepsis all the time, and that's without intentionally introducing non-sterile things into the line like frigging idiots.**

    *Spatula, hands, countertop, floor...oh yes, we pick things up off the floor and put them in the bottle, especially C2s, because the paperwork involved in throwing them out is hell. Sometimes the floor is clean. Sometimes it's not so clean. We don't tell you if any of your tabs fell on the floor. Nobody really cares because these are tablets that aren't sterile to begin with and that patients are swallowing, not injecting.

    **Sorry, but you're a frigging idiot if you inject tablets. Period.
     
  14. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

    Reputation Points:
    5,036
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,408
    Ya as much as it may of been "ok" a few times doesnt really mean shit bro.

    Swim cant fully understand the pain that swiy goes thro but has dealt with some shit in his life. He thinks it would be best to ask the doc for sterile hydro or morphine or something. Please for swiy's sake.

    If swiy still want to shoot pills or other drugs on the street then, THEY MUST BE PURIFIED. No one can say otherwise if they are truely about harm reduction. Swim doesnt know much about these PICC lines but it sounds like shooting impure substances via junkie method would be better off.

    To make the hydro's more pure. Take some fridge cold distilled h20 and pour it onto crushed hydro pills in a jar. Let sit with mixing every now and then for a day or two in the fridge. Probably be better to let it sit longer. Then filter or decant off the water from the gunk not dissolved. Then evaporate off water to leave a somewhat more pure hydrocodone.

    Next recrystalize from ethanol (not sure if this is the best solvent, could try methanol or isopropyl alcohol as well). Take boiling ethanol and pour onto the hydrocodone powder until it is fully dissolved. Try to not pour in too much ethanol, just enough to dissolve while boiling. (AT NO POINT USE AN OPEN FLAME, instead use either an electric stove or some other electric heating device). Then let the solution sit out at room temperature to slowly cool. This should slowly crystalize out the hydrocodone which will be of a higher purity. Then filter and dry, to have an almost pure hydrocodone. If ethanol doesnt work try other alcohols to find one that is best.

    Also if the crystalization is too much work, then AT LEAST, wash the hydroC powder from the cold water extraction with acetone in a filter. Basically pour the powder onto two filters doubled up, then pour acetone over it to dissolve anymore acetone soluble impurities. This isnt as good as crystalizing tho, and Swim would actually suggest to do all three steps.

    Cold water extraction, Acetone washing, Ethanol recrystalization.

    Anyone considering this please either clean the products to pure or use sterile IV liquid. If swiyour life is valuable.

    Peace
     
  15. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    6,126
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,116
    The tablets in question are hydroMORPHONE, not hydroCODONE (Dilaudid vs Vicodin). There's no need to do a Cold Water Extraction on them; hydromorphone tablets are tiny in comparison to Vicodin/Norco/Lortab & they don't contain any APAP.

    I don't know how much, if at all, this fact would change the suggested TEK.

    HTH :)

    ~Kailey, who thinks a terminal cancer patient in apparent pain shouldn't have MUCH trouble requesting hydromorphone in an injectable ampule form anyway...
     
  16. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

    Reputation Points:
    5,036
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,408
    Lol oops swims bad... hes blind and deaf.

    But even if it were hydroM's, the little pill binder, could still prove to be a problem. Swim is sure that at least a warm or boiling water extraction could be used in place for the above procedure as swim has found almost all opiate salts to be water soluble to some extent. But the Cold Water Extraction should be tried first in effort to keep as much pill binder as possible from dissolving.

    And they may be small, but in comparison to the amount of active opiate per pill, they are the same in terms of pill binder contaminants. As usually diladid is in dosages in the single digit MG's.

    Maybe shooting pills up in the arm or some shit is somewhat ok. But this PICC line sounds dangerous, like any contaminants could mean infection, resulting in quick death. Swims just concerned after watching people have there arms practically fall off from unsafe shooting practices. Swim always used cleans and never did the same place and has beautiful arms to show for it :).

    Peace
     
  17. Ilsa

    Ilsa Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    1,881
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,147


    ^^^that pretty much sums it up. thsi is a terrible idea, and definitely not harm reduction by any stretch of the imagination. closed pending deletion.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.