Short term relief from Kratom withdrawals.

Discussion in 'Other drug addiction' started by baz57, Mar 21, 2010.

  1. baz57

    baz57 Newbie

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    My golden retriever could use some help...
    He has been using Kratom extracts (mostly 15x) daily for a little while now. First he would put some of the extract in a cigarette, about .1 per. The amount of tobacco smoked to get the desired effect from the Kratom quickly became undesirable.

    He then switched to doing lines of the powdered extract. This quickly jumped his tolerance and he would quietly consume up to the equivalent of 15g's of dry leaf in a day. Now, his fun money has run short, and he's now gone 4 days w/o the Kratom he enjoys. His muscles seem tense and painful, has spasms of shivering and his subjective temperature is going wild (feeling hot then cold, then sweating, etc.)

    He's having a difficult time getting to sleep and often wakes up at strange times. The muscle contractions make it difficult for him to get comfortable.

    My golden adds that he understands that his symptoms are much more mild than others of this type. He's looking for something that could help in the short term, and doesn't need to hear about how much worse your pet had it when dealing with not having [insert substance here] He would rather avoid another substance to avoid trading one problem for another.

    Can someone please help my dog?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2015
  2. DXMBunny

    DXMBunny Silver Member

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    Re: Short term relief?

    I am currently using DXM to curb withdrawals, higher recreational doses area allowing swim to skip through the withdrawal phases, I am gonna make a thread soon with more info, look into dxm(dextromethorphan) for helping opiate withdrawal. It works, but really You should be through the majority of withdrawals by now, the first week is hardest!

    There is no quick fix tho, cept taking more substance, which doesnt help.sorry for lack of time or I would post more help.

    DXM has never been known to have addictive properties fyi. smaller than recreational doses can do some help too, look into it.
     
  3. baz57

    baz57 Newbie

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    Re: Short term relief?

    Thank swiy. My dog did read that the majority of the troubles are in the first three days, so I think he's just gonna ride it out at this point. I'll read the other info here about DXM and if he's having a hard time by Monday I'll encourage him to get some. Thanks again :vibes:
     
  4. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: Short term relief?

    Is You saying they only way they used Kratom was by smoking it and Snorting it?
    You does realise that Kratom is supposed to be eaten (toss & wash) or drank as a Tea?

    I do not know anyone who has had any effects (bar possible placebo) from smoking it, and doing lines (snorting) is a very strange way to take it, Swim cant imagine anyone is capable of snorting up to 15 grams of leaf!

    I have gone through Kratom withdrawal a few times and it has never been pleasant. Do a search for Kratom Addiction, there are several threads that have helpfull advice.
     
  5. baz57

    baz57 Newbie

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    Re: Short term relief?

    Again, SWIM only used extracts. Maybe the smoking was a placebo, but SWIM and a few of his friends had definitely noticeable effects from smoking extract. I understand that lines is a bit of a strange way of consumption, and while it produced strong effects for SWIM every time, I wouldn't really recommend it now :) The extract was in the form of a powder, making the normal tea/eating method a bit difficult, and smoking/lines a bit easier. As for trying it for the first time, I don't think he's the best source of advice. Might try the wiki on this site, hope it helps.
     
  6. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: Short term relief?

    Making tea and eating is easier with powder. Is You sure they are not confusing Kratom with something else?
    People dont smoke Kratom, and You is the first person he has ever heard of snorting Kratom.
    What type of extract was You using, what strain?
     
  7. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

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    Re: Short term relief?

    As Kratom affects the opioid receptors, I'd recommend clonidine (Catapres), just like I would for any opioid withdrawal. A lot of opioid withdrawal symptoms are from noradrenaline overload, and clonidine can help greatly with these (runny nose/eyes/mouth, twitchy legs, anxiety, etc). The only thing clonidine doesn't seem to help is the "digestive" upsets of withdrawal. It's not addictive, and should be available from any doctor, as it's not a drug of abuse. It might even be available online in your area (wherever that is).

    I'm with ianzombie, in that I've never heard of anyone smoking & snorting kratom, even extracts. Are you maybe using that Krypton kratom "extract"?

    ~Kailey
     
    1. 4/5,
      Great satety conscious advice along with a very possible caring remedy.
      Apr 21, 2011
  8. baz57

    baz57 Newbie

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    Re: Short term relief?

    Sorry all, haven't been on in a while. Short update: all withdrawal symptoms SWIM experienced slowly diminished and could be said to have finished after two weeks. I'm no botanist, but what SWIM purchased was labeled Mitragyna speciosa, and the 15x was referring to the 7-OHM content. Maybe I was the only one to smoke/snort, but for the record, it was a bad idea and I'm glad to be rid of my supply.
     
  9. Oceanstate

    Oceanstate Newbie

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    Instructions for complete physical withdrawal. Should also be useful for temporary relief. Everything here is legal.

    1. Switch from extract to dried leaf powder.
    2. When you are fully comfortable with the switch, start tapering.
    3. Take the following legal herbs: Kava Kava, Valerian, Chamomile, Ginger, White or Blue Lotus, all as needed.
    4. See a doctor and try to get prescriptions for benzodiazepines, clonidine, and cannabis (if applicable). Use these as needed but for no longer than a week or two.
    5. Finish the taper.

    As with most long-term opioid addictions, staying off is much harder than getting off. My friend, a two year kratom addict who has successfully withdrawn twice but relapsed both times, offers the following advice: do not give up, but don't beat yourself up either. Kratom is a viciously addictive drug, but it is quite physically benign. The only dilemma is living knowing that you are an addict now, and will be tomorrow, next week, next month, next year. There are more dangerous, more life-destroying drugs out there in this big bluish orb we call planet earth.
     
  10. Oceanstate

    Oceanstate Newbie

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    Addendum to the above post:

    Some OTC drugs can help as well. Loperamide is the first choice (duh) being an opiate itself. NSAIDs have never done much for my friend, even in high doses, but Alka-Selzer seems to work well. Psychoactive levels of dextromethorphan, a synthetic opiate, are an option as well, but controversial.
     
  11. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

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    I have to say, that this attitude is really only able to be afforded right now because Kratom isn't a controlled substance at the moment.

    When I had a regular prescription for opioids (& thus they were legal for me), I didn't particularly mind being 'addicted' either. However, once I got cut off of my clinic & had to score on the street, my opinion changed drastically.

    Do not become complacent simply because Kratom is currently legal. Unfortunately, that could change in a heartbeat, and drug-seeking behaviour is drug-seeking behaviour, regardless of the drug in question...

    ~Kailey
     
  12. Oceanstate

    Oceanstate Newbie

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    Let's move away from this negative attitude towards drugs. In your case I would have bought some kratom rather than risk buying anything on the street. I don't believe kratom will be criminalized, because alone and in 99% on combinations it won't kill you.
     
  13. postimmortal

    postimmortal Silver Member

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    Re: Short term relief?

    Is your dog experienced with regular opiates? The only reason I ask is I agree with ianzombie. I've never heard of anyone getting effects from smoking or snorting kratom. I ask about regular opiates because that would give your dog a reference point as to whether his effects were placebo or not?

    Strange.
     
  14. shivakiva2112

    shivakiva2112 Titanium Member

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    Re: Short term relief?

    Having used clonidine for kratom withdrawal I can say that in my case at least it was undesirable. The side effects of the clonidine itself exacerbated the overall unpleasantness of the experience, while the primary effects did little to curb the discomfort of withdrawal. Kratom does contain opioid compounds, but it's method of action is different in some way, as is the withdrawal. I don't recommend using clonidine for kratom withdrawal to any extent.

    But more to the point, in case anyone comes along looking: benzodiazepines (used sparingly), gabapentin, valerian root/extract, chamomile, kava kava, DXM, etc. all worked pretty well. Especially, a combination of 1 mg alprazolam (xanax) and 1.2 g gabapentin (Neurontin) at bedtime provided a good chance of decently restful sleep.

    I've also recently been investigating Nigella sativa oil, it contains some compounds with mu and kappa opiate receptor affinity and seems to be great for withdrawal and cravings without having any addictive properties of it's own. Also checkout agmatine, a bodybuilding supplement, that seems to work against opiate addiction at some level, and phenibut, also available at supplement stores, as an adjunct or replacement for benzodiazepines or gabapentin.

    I'll be tapering and quitting kratom here pretty soon myself and I plan to use in copious quantities: valerian, phenibut, agmatine, nigella sativa seed oil, alcohol (to the extent that it helps, sometimes it seems to make things worse), perhaps DXM, and benzos if they're not prohibitively difficult to obtain.
     
  15. Oceanstate

    Oceanstate Newbie

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    I guess it depends on the state of your addiction, but I found kratom to be impossible to stay off of without going through a buprenorphine regimen. I was also using it to treat underlying mental disorders (sleep, concentration, depression, anxiety) that would simply go out of control otherwise.

    And having been in groups of opioid addicts, I can say that severe kratom addiction can be as bad (or worse) than that of actual opiates. Nonetheless, good luck, lol.
     
  16. Rudyak

    Rudyak Silver Member

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  17. Sleepy

    Sleepy Silver Member

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    Everytime I have used DXM to try and alleviate kratom withdrawals, I have felt pretty good for an hour, maybe two, but then it descends into significantly worse restlessness than I was previously experiencing - for HOURS upon HOURS.

    It's not a net benefit for me. Or even close to one.
     
  18. Limper

    Limper Newbie

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    My cat would like to add to this old thread that gabapentin will immediately kick the withdraws and if used responsibly you will not suffer a gabapentin addiction. My cat would never recommend a high dose because of the fact that it can lower the seizure threshold. This is a 100% guarantee, it works.
     
  19. cloud_66

    cloud_66 Newbie

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    I'm going through a similar experience right now, I approached Kratom with less responsibility than it needed and found myself taking a ~20g daily dose (damn you cheap online vendor). I have been addicted to other things to varying degrees (mainly cannabis whose withdrawals are blessedly mild and mainly psychological) but I have never been physically addicted until now (And I have taken painkillers for months post op--but broke up my consumption into brief periods with long breaks in between). It's awful, and as it has been said already in this thread I'm sure there are worse things to withdraw from but right now I am going through daily hell.

    Restlessness, anxiety, loss of appetite, fixation on obtaining more Kratom...the list goes on. The worse part is the Restless Leg Syndrome. I have been going to a local headshop to buy small portions of powder at wildly inflated prices just to sleep (it takes at least 10g to put me down as well as 8mg Chlorpheniramine Maleate and 5-10mg Melatonin) which I really can't afford. I just can't help myself. If I was totally cut off and forced to tough it out that would be one thing, but being able to drive down the road and buy a little overwhelms my rational side, but the guilt is not as bad as the withdrawals. I have thought about getting doctor help but again I can't afford it and have no health insurance. The only easy way I can see out is to SLOWLY taper down, but that's easier said than done as the temptation to take a recreational dose can be overwhelming.

    The things that have helped me the most are activity (mental or physical) like reading/video games/exercise or just driving around for a while. A LITTLE alcohol helps but overdoing it exacerbates everything as you experience acute alcohol withdrawals at the same time. Coffee seems to help with mood but of course does nothing for the restlessness/anxiety. Sunlight/going outside helps more than you might thinks. Clutching my cat and rocking back and forth helps a little too. I tried some DXM and this helped initially but as another poster said it seemed to make things worse later. I'm sure everyone perusing this region of the site already knows this but Kratom is no joke, it's the only thing I've ever become totally (physically) addicted to (probably because of legality/ease of access to be honest). Part of me just wants to find some saplings for a guaranteed lifetime supply, but damn I wish I'd never gotten so hooked. Be careful out there.

    cloud_66 added 7 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

    Also gotta say I have heard of people smoking/snorting Kratom, but I'd have to imagine it would need to be a fairly pure extract of one of the primary chemicals or possibly something laced with O-desmethyltramadol or some random Chinese research opioid. It seems like at least one chemical in Kratom has to be metabolized in the digestive system but I can't remember just this second. I don't know if I said it in my previous post but it seems like antihistamines (I personally like Chlorpheniramine Maleate and Diphenhydramine, but CPM has less of an anticholinergic effect making it a little safer, if not quite as sedating) and melatonin at least make sleep possible if you can't obtain stronger sedatives. When I decide I am going to get off the stuff completely I will probably try to obtain some Mirtazapine, an antidepressant with some pretty damn strong sedative properties. Having an orgasm also helps with mood/restlessness.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2015
  20. Liusvirgo

    Liusvirgo Newbie

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    I've been a full time kratom user for about a year and I was using up to an oz daily. I 'm now on day 3 of w/d. I have been using chuchuausi an amazonian tree bark for aches and pains and Una de gato for stomach upset. I'm honestly doing just fine and I'm really sensitive to opiate type w/d. If your a long time opiate addict I honestly suggest ibogaine its a really intense pychadelic that has a 90℅ success rate in treat opiate addiction. Very similar to ayauausca. But more intense lol