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Sister on heroin, husband poppy seed tea

Discussion in 'Family & friends' started by splendidtree, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. splendidtree

    splendidtree Newbie

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    Hey I am new here and I feel like I need to just say something to anyone. I have a sister who is addicted to heroin and she will be released from DOC next week. She just lost her husband to overdose and she is planning on moving in with a drug dealer. She thinks she can stay clean which I don't think she can personally. Anyhow just learning to let go as I have done all I can do.

    Also my husband uses poppy seed tea for pain. Upon research, I feel like it is a drug in a way. Is it like an addiction? I wish he wouldn't use this stuff.

    Thanks for at least reading this. I don't have anyone to talk to about my husband...and not many who understand my sister's plight. She has lost everything and is refusing treatment. It is so hard to just let go.
     
  2. ladywolf2012

    ladywolf2012 Got diamonds in the soles of my shoes! Palladium Member Donating Member

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    Oh, hon, I am so sorry for these circumstances.

    First, the Poppy Seed Tea issue. It IS a drug, in many cases (depending on how it is brewed, the particular seeds used, etc.) a very powerful opiate. People can get suckered into it by thinking, "Oh, it's just tea," but what it really is is opium, pure and simple. It is very easy to get addicted to, and very difficult to come off of. You are wise to be worried by your husband's use of it. Yes, he may be an addict by now--hard to say without more information.

    Your sister's case just sounds so sad. It is hard for me to imagine that she will be able to stay clean when living with a dealer, unless she has a will of stone. But it doesn't seem as if there is much that you can do about it. You are right--you need to keep letting go and letting go, since you have no power over your sister's life.

    I think it might be very helpful to you to hit some Al-Anon meetings. They are for family and friends of addicts, and they can be very powerful. Usually there are people there who have been through many years of dealing with addicts, and have learned a lot that they can share. Plus, you might make a new friend or two with whom you share things in common.

    I feel kind of helpless in writing to you, as I don't know what advice to give. All I can do is offer my heart-felt support and send you lots of hugs. Please stay in touch with us.
     
  3. splendidtree

    splendidtree Newbie

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    Thank you so much for this post. I am looking into Al-Anon actually and my pastor has also been quite helpful this past week. It is so much to take in but it is nice to know there is help and people who can relate, not that I wish this upon them.

    As for my husband he uses PST every single day multiple times for his pain. He used to be on medications but then his doctor started letting people go because of all of the regulations and whatnot so he lost his treatment. He has been using it for at least 5-6 months pretty much daily and most times, 2-5 times a day. I actually originally found this tea at the store with poppy flower in it, a way smaller amount than what he obviously uses, so when I found out people made this while poppy seed tea, I thought it was natural and fine. I was even the one who told him about it and I feel so guilty. I do not drink, smoke, do drugs or anything like that. He says it isn't illegal or a drug and I feel once it is made, it is illegal. He buys lots of bags of seeds from the internet and it's sad seeing that money go down the drain.

    I am sorry to write so much. I was losing sleep over a lot of this so came on here and thankfully, you had written me. It means a lot thanks so much.
     
  4. tatittle

    tatittle Silver Member

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    Extremely unlikely your sister will stay clean if she is a former addict moving in with a dealer of the substance. She is likely under the illusion she will be careful and "control/manage it right" this time. This is the reason the 1st step is "accepting we are powerless over [substance]" ie cannot control its use. She feels better now and her pride makes her want to prove she isn't powerless over it anymore. She will in all likelihood wind up back in jail, and probably within a couple years. The lifestyle around illegal drugs is probably more dangerous than drugs themselves.

    I would be less concerned about your husband unless his use is significantly causing problems in his life. Legal/financial troubles are less likely with him and while still possible, extreme abuse is less likely. If his life is otherwise in good shape I don't see much reason to view his habit much differently than someone who uses expresso everyday. I may not like expresso, but who am I to tell others not to use it if it isn't harming me? In other words, if there are articulable problems he has stemming from his use, and not merely vague general concerns based in (often incorrect) popular cultural taboos, that justifies examination. Using it daily will eventually cause physical dependence so he will feel terrible if he loses access to it for awhile, but there are also potential benefits he may enjoy from using it....just like any Rx food, or medicine, one has to weigh the pros and cons of their individual circumstances to determine if the use is a net plus or minus. E.G. He could turn into an angry uptight jerk who is unpleasant to be around if he gets clean; OR he could regain ambition and energy and enjoy life even more without it. Maybe money is limited and it could be going to kids college tuition instead; he needs to realize making the choice to use it affects other things but whether it is a good choice depends on your personal priorities. Different people have totally different balance sheets.
    If he is using it only occasionally for relaxation or pain relief, insomnia etc., he will not be physically dependant on it and I see no reason to view it any differently from occasionally drinking alcohol or taking a sleeping pill. It certainly isn't more harmful to his body than things that are perfectly acceptable to consume culturally, unless it has adulterants like harmful pesticides/DDT mixed into it or something.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  5. splendidtree

    splendidtree Newbie

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    Thanks for your reply. Yes my sister will be on a year of probation and we spoke on the phone last night. She says she is in love with this man and all this stuff. She has lost her homes, her kids, her husband, everything to this addiction and also almost her life several times if not for God and Narcan. I don't mean to sound weird but I have kind of been like preparing myself for another possibility of her overdosing. Like not wanting it but realizing with her history and her decision, it is pretty likely. Maybe I am being negative.

    My husband uses the tea multiple times a day for pain. It doesn't interfere with our relationship other than it bugs me because my family has addicts in it. He has legitimate diagnoses that cause him pain I guess I just wish there were a better way. Perhaps I am sounding judgmental and being worried because of my sister. But no, no odd or bad behavior he just functions normally and we have a pretty regular life.
     
  6. Cokiemonster33

    Cokiemonster33 Newbie

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    How long has he been using it for
     
  7. Cokiemonster33

    Cokiemonster33 Newbie

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    I've been through the exact same thing as your husband I've been using painkillers for years now due to my condition I have these cluster headaches they come every day for up to 4 times, 5 months at a time and the doctor let's get a narcotic and I have a specialist who also gives me a narcotic but enough to take a little every day but I don't always do that I take more than perscibed because of the pain I'm having. Any way I'm blabbing on how is he when he doesn't have the tea is he irritable or depression creep up on him some people are good at hiding it but it will be there it happens to everyone who has been on painkillers narcotic ones for years
     
  8. trdofbeingtrd

    trdofbeingtrd Gold Member

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    First rule when quitting an addiction, cut contact ties. Stay strong for your children and I am sorry that you will have more pain regarding your sister.

    All opiate tolerance builds. Providing your husband does not die from overdose, just be ready for the withdrawals when they hit him.

    Research all you can on poppy seed tea.share that information with him. There are reasons people can die because of the tea.

    You have my empathies.
     
  9. perro-salchicha614

    perro-salchicha614 The Pipe Lady Titanium Member Supporter

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    @splendidtree, Like Ladywolf said, PST is basically a diluted form of opium. When poppy seeds are removed from pods, a ton of dried latex from the pods gets on them, and if the manufacturer doesn't process them further to remove it, you can get very high using them to make "tea." The bulk of the psychoactive effect of the tea comes from the morphine in it. Opium is what out great-grandparents (or grandparents, depending on your age) and countless generations before them used for aches and pains, and it used to be as common for someone to take a few drops of laudanum for a backache as it is for us to pop a couple of Tylenol now.

    A fair bit of caution is warranted, and you can overdose and die on this stuff, but it's unlikely as long as your husband isn't mixing the tea with any other depressants (like booze or benzos). It's unlikely that the seeds would be contaminated with pesticides because they're packaged for human consumption.

    Your husband is obviously avoiding a lot of the legal problems that usually come with illicit opiate use, since the chances of him being caught and prosecuted for making PST are basically nil, but the physical reality of the habit is the same as it is with any other form of opiate dependence. Technically, making PST is illegal, and your husband is fooling himself if he thinks it isn't. Because he's basically hooked on morphine, it isn't a habit he can easily pick up and put down based on how much money's in the bank account, and it will have to be part of the budget if he's going to keep on using it.

    A PST habit can be a problem, but it doesn't have to be. I use it regularly, and it isn't terribly problematic for me (although I do experience some typical opiate side effects). It's totally possible for someone to use opium and function relatively normally because it tends to be a self-limiting habit (there's only so much PST a person can drink). This is, after all, how people dealt with pain, depression, and about a zillion other health problems for thousands of years before the advent of pills.
     
  10. Cokiemonster33

    Cokiemonster33 Newbie

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    I agree with perro-salchicha614 in the way that it can be used responsibly just like anything else you need to know what you can handle you could always see a pain management specialist they helped me a little more than I thought they could determine whether your husband needs to be treated for the pain and consequences of the tea
     
  11. aemetha

    aemetha Insomniac Member Silver Member Donating Member

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    The only thing I have to add to this, is that while PST can be used to effectively manage pain, that he is using it 2-5 times a day is quite alarming to me because it has quite a long period of effect (around 8 hours if you're using it to get high and the threshold for analgesia is normally lower than that). How much exactly is he using each time (weight of the seeds he uses for each dose is what I'm asking here)?

    I might be barking up the wrong tree here, it just strikes me as more frequent than should be necessary. Perhaps @Coacervate can add to it as I think he is quite experienced using PST for pain management.
     
  12. splendidtree

    splendidtree Newbie

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    I don't think he uses many seeds per dose. I honestly don't know much about this stuff but I can try to find out. And he also is on psychiatric medications (benzos and antidepressants) so I am concerned about that combination. I hadn't even thought of that when typing before but I think of it often these days. When he doesn't have tea for a day or 2 (which is rare) he gets sick. We have no kids or anything just cats. I just I dont have a good feeling about it.

    As for my sister...I am almost bracing myself for her overdosing. Is that wrong? I am trying to find Al-Anon close to me. I don't drive though so it is a challenge.
     
  13. perro-salchicha614

    perro-salchicha614 The Pipe Lady Titanium Member Supporter

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    The fact that he's on benzos is definitely worrisome.

    When using the tea, there's an additional risk of overdose (beyond what would be expected with an opiate/benzo combo) because the potency of this stuff varies so greatly. It's a natural product. It comes from a plant. There's no way to titrate the dose precisely. He could easily wind up with a super potent batch of tea (this has happened to me a few times) and he wouldn't know until he was already showing symptoms of overdose.

    I would really urge him to try to find a doctor who is more receptive to his pain management needs so that he doesn't have to keep taking that risk.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
  14. aemetha

    aemetha Insomniac Member Silver Member Donating Member

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    What @perro-salchicha614 says is entirely correct. This article highlights the seriousness of the issue of opioids (which PST is) in combination with benzodiazepines. https://drugs-forum.com/ams/this-pr...-a-third-of-all-opioid-overdose-deaths.27194/

    Antidepressants are also not without risks. Many antidepressants inhibit one or another of the enzymes that are used to metabolise drugs. This can lead to increased concentrations of the drug which could potentially contribute to an overdose scenario.

    Getting him to a pain management doctor would be the best scenario. If you can give us some more information about the exact medications and doses he is using we can be more specific about the potential risks. Like perro says though, the variability in PST is a significant problem particularly in combination with the other drugs. Does he drink at all? Alcohol will also contribute to the risk of overdose in the same way as benzodiazepines. It's beginning to sound a bit like an accident waiting to happen.
     
  15. TheBigBadWolf

    TheBigBadWolf Imperial Wizzard Gold Member Donating Member

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    Hallo @splendidtree ,

    I do not have very much to add, I'm only posting to reinforce what has been said in the last two posts about the synergetic effects of opiates and benzos.

    These two substance groups in combination with the oftentimes overlooked drinking alcohol are the reason for most of the fatalities when Central Nervous Depressants are taken together.
    This does of course NOT mean opiates and benzos are dangerous only together with alocohol, they are, when overdosed, active enough to make a person simply stop breathing.

    Therefore it might be a clever idea to get the most insecure part, the PoppySeeds out of the equation and either replaced with an opioid painkiller of a constant dose or swapped to Kratom which also is an interesting plant substitute that is working similar to opioids but is in most places legal and relativeely easy to come by.

    Definitely involve a pain management doctor.

    BBW

    BBW
     
  16. splendidtree

    splendidtree Newbie

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    My husband and I chatted and he is going to wean off of the seeds. I told him what I found out and he is scared of the pain but going to do it. Does anyone have any tips for him weaning off of this stuff? Also my sister gets out in 24 hours and will be moving in with the dealer....I am losing sleep just feeling like she is just going to OD again and this time not make it through.
     
  17. trdofbeingtrd

    trdofbeingtrd Gold Member

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    Crazy thing about opiate/opioid pain relief, it seems to make the pain worse if it's used frequently.

    My back for instance. It hurts from getting injured but it hurt more and more often when I was addicted to pain pills. Hot water showers, Tylenol, ibuprofen, and messages are how I manage it now. I'm pretty sure if I popped an oxycodone right now the pain would go away but I'm also sure that if I had a months supply that at the end of the month it would be way worse.

    For the record, ain't nothing wrong with YOU replacing the poppy seed tea. You two in whatever spare time you have can learn the arts of message. On some nights it can just be a quick 10-15 minute message but when you catch a break, it can be a nice intimate 20-30 message. Wink wink

    As for your sister, don't enable but also don't lack in love and care......most dealers don't want food for drugs or coffee visits you two might have together.
     
  18. Coacervate

    Coacervate Silver Member

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    Many have used Kratom to treat opioid withdrawal. It is very good for some people treating their pain. I have chronic back and joint pain from arthritis. I used to use poppy POD tea exclusively, only dosing as absolutely needed and never more than 3 days without a 3 or 4 day break. Now I am using Kratom to treat pain and minimize use of pods. I find Kratom much better for fitting my pain treatment into my lifestyle. I use Maeng Da when I need to work and at night Red Borneo as needed. I only use pods now when I'm stuck in the chair. I would recommend that anyone self medicating for pain give Kratom a try. Also, he might find that the mood lift makes the benz0's redundant as well. Let us know how you make out or if you wish more info on Kratom.
    FWIW, I've been dosing Kratom, 3 g twice per day for a year now. I still take a 3 day break and never had any withdrawals.