Drug info - Smart info:choline,5HTP and vitamins

Discussion in 'Nootropics' started by Daeron, May 10, 2005.

  1. Daeron

    Daeron Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I think that this forum needs more info on vitamins and smart drugs.There are two sides of the drug use:the actual drug (ab)use and the things you do to keep yourself healthy&sane.I hope more people will join this discussion. A nice source on the subject: http://www.smart-publications.com/books/5htp/toc.html

    Nutrient: Choline Summary Physiological functions of choline
    * Keeps cellular membranes functioning properly
    * Allows for proper communication between nerves and muscles
    * Helps prevent the build-up of homocysteine in the blood
    Physiological events that may signal a need for greater choline intake
    * Fatigue
    * Insomnia
    * Nerve-muscle problems
    * Inability of the kidneys to concentrate urine
    * Accumulation of fats in the blood

    Choline - background and overview
    Although choline has been the subject of nutritional research for almost 150 years, it is the newest official member of the B vitamin family, having its Adequate Intake levels (AIs) established for the first time by the National Academy of Sciences in 1998
    In the late 1930s, scientists discovered that pancreatic tissue contained a substance that could prevent fat accumulation in the liver. This substance was named choline, derived from the Greek word chole, which means bile. Since this initial discovery, researchers have found that choline is not only present in the pancreas and the liver, but is, in fact, a component of every human cell
    As research on choline has continued, it has been found that its naming after the Greek word for bile is highly appropriate. Choline has similar fat-modifying properties to bile, whose primary job is to emulsify fat so that it can be transported around the body in the blood, which is a water-based substance. Choline retains similar fat-modifying effects in the cellular membrane, allowing these membranes to operate with greater flexibility in handling both fat- and water-soluble compounds. In the absence of choline, many fat-based nutrients and metabolic waste products would not be able to pass in and out of the cells
    Choline’s unique chemical structure as a trimethylated molecule (having three attached methyl groups) allows it to have other important functions in the body since many important chemical events in the body are possible through the transfer of methyl groups from molecule to molecule. For example, genes can be switched on and off through methyl group transfer, making choline an important factor in the processes of cellular signaling. There is now special interest in choline in the area of mental health where the maintenance of messages sent between nerves is especially critical.
    Functions of choline
    Cell membrane integrity maintenance
    Since choline is a critical component of many fat-containing compounds in the cell membrane, and the cell membrane is made up almost entirely of fats, the flexibility and integrity of the membrane is inextricably linked to adequate choline supplies. Phosphatidylcholineand sphingomyelin are examples of membrane structures that require choline. These fat-like molecules account for an unusually high percentage of total solids in the brain; therefore, choline is particularly important for the health of the brain and has significant potential for therapeutic use in brain disorders.
    Methyl group metabolism support
    As noted in the Description section, choline has a unique chemical structure in that it is trimethylated (has three methyl groups), which makes it an extremely important molecule in methyl group metabolism. The transfer of methyl groups is a key process in allowing many important chemical events to occur in the body. For example, genes can be switched on and off through methyl group transfer, making choline an important factor in the processes of cellular signaling. Through its role in methyl group metabolism, choline plays a role in ensuring that levels of homocysteine are kept within healthy range (excess homocysteine levels are related to the development of cardiovascular disease and other health conditions).
    Support of nervous system activity(EDIT:eek:r why you need to take it with piracetam)
    Choline is a key component of acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter that carries messages between nerves and between nerves and muscles. Owing to its role in nerve-muscle function, choline supplemented in the form of lecithin or phosphatidlycholine has been used experimentally to help improve neuromuscular function in Alzheimer’s disease
    Health conditions that require special emphasis on choline
    Individuals who have the following health conditions should pay special attention to their choline status
    * Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)
    * Alcoholism
    * Alzheimer’s disease
    * Autism
    * Candidiasis
    * Cirrhosis
    * Coronary heart disease
    * Epilepsy
    * Failure to thrive in newborns
    * Hyperhomocysteineimia
    * Hypertension
    * Hypertriglyceridemia
    * Infertility
    * Memory deficit problems
    * Parkinson’s disease
    * Respiratory distress in newborns

    Choline, like the other SAM cycle nutrients, may also play a role in reducing the toxic effects of heavy metals, including lead, upon the body. While choline’s precise role in helping to protect against heavy metal toxicity is still not clear, the process is likely to be complex and to involve more than just the simple methylation of heavy metals since the addition of a methyl group to heavy metals often increases, rather than decreases, their toxicity.
    Food Sources
    Foods that are concentrated sources of choline
    Lecithin (phosphytidylcholine),the emulsifier that is added to foods to keep their components blended together, is the richest source of choline in the U.S diet. Soybeans are the source of most of the lecithin in the U.S.food supply. Food sources of choline include soybean and soybean products, egg yolk, butter, banana, barley, cauliflower, corn, flax seeds, lentils, milk, oranges, potatoes, sesame seeds, tomatoes and whole wheat bread. Many of these foods do not just contain choline itself, but also other forms of the nutrient including lecithin (phosphatidylcholine) and sphingomyelin.
    Public Recommendations
    Current public health recommendations for choline intake
    In 1998, the Institute of Medicine at the National Academy of Sciences set the following Adequate Intake (AI) levels for choline:
    * 0-6 months: 125 milligrams
    * 6-12 months: 150 milligrams
    * 1-3 years: 200 milligrams
    * 4-8 years: 250 milligrams
    * Males 9-13 years: 375 milligrams
    * Males 14 years and older: 550 milligrams
    * Females 9-13 years: 375 milligrams
    * Females 14-18 years: 400 milligrams
    * Females 19 years and older: 425 milligrams
    * Pregnant females of any age: 450 milligrams
    * Lactating females of any age: 550 milligrams
    Prevention of liver damage was the main criterion used in establishment of these recommended levels.
     
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  2. Daeron

    Daeron Platinum Member & Advisor

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    <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />[​IMG]the [​IMG]RDA`s:


    [​IMG]
     
  3. Daeron

    Daeron Platinum Member & Advisor

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    BUMP! you unhealthy SOBs
     
  4. tonymontana

    tonymontana Newbie

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    what does 5-htp do? will it get you zooted?
     
  5. xpr´k

    xpr´k Newbie

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    lemme qoute my bottle for ya

    From own experience i can tell you it has no recreational value. I use it myself to help minimize an XTC hangover and to recover from the massive drain of serotonine it causes.

    There's a noticeble difference in strength and duration of the well known XTC depression. My temper isnt nearly as volatile and i dont feel wheepy at all while i'm using 5HTP. It will also help me sleep, before i used it i noticed i slept very light the first few days after i had taken XTC and falling asleep usually took a while.
    Since ive been using 5HTP on the comedown and the week after a party, ive never had anything that i would even concider a hangover.
    Sure i'm pretty tired the next day and a bit unfocused but that has more todo with fatigue then anything else.
    For me personally 5HTP is a great supplement, any time i need a good nights sleep i'll just take 100mg's 1 hour before going to bed and it always puts me out like a baby without waking up drousy like real downers will do to you.
     
  6. bewilderment

    bewilderment Drug Geek Extraordinaire Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I think this is a great idea for a thread. I was doing quite a bit of research into nootropics and other such supplements a couple of years ago, but I didn't really have the cash to buy a bunch of the things which sparked my interest...I tried out a regimine with Piracetam, Choline, Inositol, Ginkgo Biloba, Ginseng, L-Glutamine, Amino Fuel, and a multivitamin though for a little while and found it helped my alertness and concentration a great deal. I haven't been taking anything lately except Sam-e, Choline, Inositol, and a multivitamin...but, I haven't been taking them as regularly as I should.

    I'd like to hear what others use though.
     
  7. sands of time

    sands of time Gold Member

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    This was written originally in 05? Must have missed it. There is some great info about choline in there, and it really is a great vitamin to take. I take between 500mg-1 gram a day, but you really should watch it with this stuff. I find that it can make me feel very hot and sweaty in larger doses, which is no fun. I also attribute a bit of fatigue to high doses of it. Many articles also state that doses over 10 grams can produce a fish like oder in the poor bastard who took that much.

    People who take piracetam should definately take choline in the form of a supplement. 500mg is enough if you take 1-2 grams piracetam, but more may be necessary for larger daily doses. I don't take over 1 gram of choline because of the sweat issue. Many people who do not take choline with piracetam report side effects such as headaches and such. The full effects of piracetam will not be appreciated without choline supplementation in my opinion, unless you have a diet that offers many good choline sources. On it's own, choline can probably contribute to improvements in memory, since it is an essential precursor to acetylcholine.

    One question, aren't meats rich is choline???
     
  8. Kamakazi

    Kamakazi Newbie

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    Meats are rich in choline. You do not really need choline supplements unless you are doing drugs of some sort or are ill. However, a little every now and then never hurts. Anything in excess does. Choline in excess certainly will. Don't overdo it. You might permenantly harm your liver.

    5-HT is 5-hydroxy TRYPTAMINE. TrytoPHAN is an amino-acid and is a precursor. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter that acts on 5-HT receptors ie. it is a form of 5-HT. It will do nothing for you because it is digested in gut. To raise serotonin levels you can take Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRI) as Fluoxetam (Prozac) or Citalopram (Cipram) (I am not advertising, these two are common, there are lots more, just search for SSRI), or Tricyclic Anti-depressents HOWEVER I STRONGLY advise NOT to take any of those drugs unless you are depressed. Even if you are depressed, see a shrink (or talk to me) because there are criteria. If you are using/are going to use acid DO NOT TAKE any serotonin-enhancing drugs. SSRIs will reduce the effect of ecstasy, so there's no point there.
     
  9. Kamakazi

    Kamakazi Newbie

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  10. bewilderment

    bewilderment Drug Geek Extraordinaire Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Personally, my diet isn't rich in any of these which is why I prefer to take choline supplements. Also, maintaining healthy levels of choline is actually very helpful to the liver and can help prevent the development of cirrhosis.