Opinions - Smoking Ban - England

Discussion in 'Tobacco' started by grecian, Feb 15, 2007.

  1. grecian

    grecian Iridium Member

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    Smoking Ban England

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6346435.stm

    Thousands of staff are being trained to police the smoking ban in bars, restaurants and shops in England.

    Ministers have given councils £29.5m to pay for staff, who will be able to give on-the-spot £50 fines to individuals and take court action against premises.

    They will have the power to enter premises undercover, allowing them to sit among drinkers, and will even be able to photograph and film people.

    Smokers' groups and industry officials said the plans were a "waste of money".

    The smoking ban is due to come into force on 1 July. It covers virtually all enclosed public places including offices, factories, pubs and bars. But neither outdoor space nor private homes will be affected.

    Business owners also have a duty to ensure their customers comply - they are liable for £200 fines if proper signs are not displayed and, potentially, fines of £2,500 if they refuse to enforce the ban.

    Local authorities have been given the power to enforce the ban so it does not consume police time.

    A government-funded course is expected to train 1,200 council officers in the next few months with more expected to follow later.

    Councils will use these fully-trained officers to brief other staff on how to enforce the law as many towns and cities will have scores of officers patrolling public places.

    In London, there will be several hundred of the so-called anti-smoking police, with 40 in Westminster alone.

    Two approaches

    Ian Gray, policy officer for the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health and chief trainer for the government course, said he expected most councils would take a "softly, softly approach" at first.

    "But there will be some occasions where action has to be taken and I am sure the compliance officers will not shy away from that," he added.

    "These officers do not have to identify themselves when they go into premises and they can even film and photograph people to gather evidence although this may not be appropriate in many cases.

    "There will be two ways of doing this, either staff can go in and identify themselves to the landlord, but they don't have to."

    In Nottingham, there will be about 30 officers patrolling the city, comprised of new staff and existing environmental health officers.

    But the council is also exploring the possibility of getting street wardens, who currently aid the local police force, to help ensure the ban is effectively enforced.

    Steve Dowling, director of environment and public protection at Nottingham City Council, said: "We have about 100 wardens and they could keep an eye on whether people are smoking in pubs as they go about their other duties.

    "But it is not just about pubs and restaurants.

    "We will also be looking at the likes of car garages and shops are complying as well."

    In Liverpool, there will be a core team of about 20 to 25 staff keeping an eye on public places, although in the first few days after the start of the ban the council is planning to do a mass patrol of the city with 200 staff.

    Liverpool City Council official Andy Hull said: "We want to make our presence felt from the start, and while we will probably just issue warnings on the first day, we won't be afraid of making an example of people or businesses if they try to make a stand."

    But Simon Clark, director of smokers' lobby group Forest, said: "The idea of getting public officials to snoop on people is distasteful and disproportionate.

    "It is like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Smokers will abide the law so it will be a complete waste of public money."

    And a spokesman for the British Beer and Pub Association added the approach was too "heavy-handed and elaborate".

    "In Scotland, there have been just 11 fixed penalty notices issued to premises in the last 10 months, with many councils having issued none at all."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2007
  2. dirk

    dirk Newbie

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    My friends enjoys a little bit of cannabis now and then, he's looking forward to the ban.

    His local pub has already started, so that now nobody thinks twice about why he has sneaked of outside to smoke something. In fact he reports quite a stoners gathering outside now it's not suspicious.
     
  3. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    same law just passed in france I heard: no smoking in any public area excepting streets. Smoking area in restaurant, airports and so should be canceled. Person smoking in such area will be verbalized (with some consequent fine).
    I think they might soon be doing the same in many european countries
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
  4. podge

    podge Gold Member

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    Smoking ban has been in effect in ireland for a while now. Swim thinks the smoking ban is a great idea.....I went on holiday to austria and him and his friends used to go outside to smoke a lot of the time as it got much too stuffy in the pub. It is annoying when its raining and there is no smoking shelter but its not that big a deal. I find that having a seperate smoking area for each pub or club is an excellent way to meet new people or to bump into old friends.
     
  5. baron samedi

    baron samedi Silver Member

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    I think its a good idea, even though he smokes.
    Is it really such a chore to walk 10 yards to the outside to enjoy a smoke?
    In any case I find smoking outdoors far preferable to smoking indoors. Tastes nicer outside IMO.
     
  6. Alicia

    Alicia Gold Member

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    You smokers disgust me with your bad health its really unhealthy and bad for you she says drinking toilet duck.

    Anyway what a pointless waste of money. I suppose they have to train people in to be like spies so they have some general practice training before the release them years later on in the future for telling jokes.

    Swia dont smoke tobacco anyway but she find the hole thing quite comical.
     
  7. darkglobe

    darkglobe Silver Member

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    Umm.... *inhales tobacco smoke*.... Can't argue with that :smoker:It's not nice to pass judgement though. 90% of smokers regret starting and want to give up. Then again, 13.2% of statistics are made up on the spot.

    ~Dark
    PS: I'm actually 7 days into my 3rd attempt to quit. It hurts, I tell ye, hurts!
     
  8. Alicia

    Alicia Gold Member

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    ^^ i was just joking really. Im not passing judgment. I personally dont care who smokes its up to them.. And good for you on the seven days swia knows it tough not first of hand of course but as seen the many attempts people have tried so good for you ;)
     
  9. darkglobe

    darkglobe Silver Member

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    I agree with this. Why should we inflict our stupidity on others? After all, everyone has a right to choice.

    Thing is, I believe smokers should have the right to smoke in dedicated areas as much as non-smokers have the right to stay healthy.

    I don't like smokers who sit down next to you and light up even in smoking areas. I always used to ask others if they minded. Even in the pub.

    On the other hand, those who start moaning about smokers do my head in. If you don't like it, MOVE! Growl.

    I think the smoking argument will never be solved. I have a story which shows this:

    One day a few years back I was sitting at the bar of my local. This was before most pubs stopped you smoking at the bar. I decided to light a Monte Cristo cigar which I had purchased earlier that day.

    For those of you who don't know, Monte Cristo cigars are about 10 inches long, and smell beautiful (to me).

    Anyway, the bartender was uncomfortable with me smoking such a fragrant cigar in front of him and directed me towards the smoking area. I was alone in the area, until an elderly couple sat down at the table next to me. The woman said hello, and was generally pleasant.... Until I lit the cigar.
    "Excuse me young man (I'm 19) would you mind putting that out, please?"
    Now, I was glad of her politeness, but I didn't want to waste any of this expensive cigar.
    "Sorry, but I've just lit it now and will waste it if I put it out, and these aren't cheap"
    "Neither are my lungs"
    "I don't mean to be rude but there are plenty of tables away from me, and you do know you're in the smoking area, right?"
    "We want to sit here."
    At this point I was getting irritated. Judge me as you like, but I believe I wasn't being unreasonable.
    "Well I'm sorry but I want to sit here, too. I was here before you, I have the right to enjoy my cigar in the smoking area of this building, and you have the right not to inhale it... right over there."
    I pointed to the table furthest away from me.
    The old cow then proceeded to grass me up to the bartender. I don't know what she said. Bartender comes over to me and he says
    "Problem, Matt?"
    "Her."
    "Righto."
    Bartender tells lady to sit away from the smoke, or go to the non-smoking area.
    "I shall not be told what to do. I want to sit here".
    "Well fucking sit there then. I'll get the box ready".
    "What box?"
    "Your coffin, Madam. If the smoke really is worth the fuss you've been making then maybe you're going to need one".
    At this point I actually felt quite guilty as I don't like to cause a fuss.

    Can't be bothered to complete the story but basically the old bitch went to the non-smoking area and sparked up a cigarette!!

    It just shows really how nobody is right. The non-smokers have more of a point as the health issues are fair enough, but smoking has been around for centuries, so why should those accustomed to it have to be persecuted?

    I dunno. Maybe I'm just bitter at the moment coz I just ran out of Nicotine gum. Fuck.

    ~Dark.
     
  10. darkglobe

    darkglobe Silver Member

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    Why thank you :D

    It's hard as I don't really want to. I'm only doing it for my fiancée (sp?) as it annoys her and I don't want to affect her health. It bugs when I have to go outside really often to have one (her house is non-smoking) and it actually adds up to a lot of time apart.

    ~Dark
     
  11. Alicia

    Alicia Gold Member

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    Well then there is a motive to stop not just her health its also yours. So it be good in the long run. Just think of all the positives that you are doing by not smoking when you need an itch with tobacco. all the best thou.
     
  12. darkglobe

    darkglobe Silver Member

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    Thanks. I'm doing it for my relationship. Never really been one to give a fuck about my health lol.
     
  13. Humanity

    Humanity Titanium Member

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    Ok, I do agree with this law, I do see the non-smokers' side of this and I wouldn't want to sit across the bar with 10 drunken idiots who just smoke one ciggarette after the next... since it it's almost as bad for me as for them.

    This law will also be reinforced in Estonia starting July 1.

    There's one major "but" however...

    While bars/cafes/wateringholes can't have their customers smoke in-doors, they're going to (or at least are fearing to) lose a lot of customers... but since smoking is allowed in night-clubs, we're quite sure we're gonna see a huge trend of nice bars turning into raging nighclubs... which in itsself wouldn't be that bad, BUT, I'm 19 meaning I can drink in bars, but CANNOT go to night-clubs :p

    So this sucks.

    Hope I'll still find some nice places...

    Hum.
     
  14. darkglobe

    darkglobe Silver Member

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    Smoking ban started in Wales on Monday.

    I see both sides of the story. I've recently quit smoking and welcome the decision. Besides, I've never had a problem with going outside for a cigarette. My only gripe is that some places have a no re-entry policy. I fear this may be hard for smokers.
     
  15. baron samedi

    baron samedi Silver Member

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    I wonder what the Estonian governments thinking is on this? Surely there will non-smokers/employees in nightclubs too? AFAIK there are to be no exceptions in the UK. Don't really know if this is good or bad really.