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Combinations - Some questions about combining kratom and Antihistamines.

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by promnthevs, Feb 14, 2010.

  1. promnthevs

    promnthevs Silver Member

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    SWIM has traditionally taken 50 mg of diphenhydramine (DPH) about an hour before ingesting kratom (or, if the capsules are broken open and the hydrochloride salt dissolved in warm water, it saves about 30 minutes) in order to combat the nasty side effects (i.e. nausea and itching). SWIM thought that DPH was a good choice since it is an antihistamine as well as an anti emetic.

    However, one problem with DPH is the drowsiness it causes, although this doesn't bother SWIM too much anymore since DPH tolerance builds up pretty quickly and doesn't go away easily.

    SWIM also remembers reading about DPH's ability to potentiate opioid receptors, but SWIM doesn't know whether this is true. On the other hand, SWIM has read that histamine release is actually responsible for the "body high" that accompanies heroin use.

    SWIM can't say for sure whether taking DPH with kratom affects the high one way or the other.

    Has SWIY used DPH or other antihistamines with kratom? If so, what were the results?
     
  2. Oxymorphone

    Oxymorphone Palladium Member

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    Re: Kratom and Antihistamines

    SWIM has taken two anti-histamines with Kratom, both seemed to potentiate the kratom's effects and lessen it's negatives.

    Diphenhydramine and hydroxyzine made the kratom feel close to hydrocodone for SWIM, maybe due to the slight drowsiness they cause, but it definitely felt stronger than the same dose of the same kratom without any potentiators. SWIM doesn't get itchy from kratom, but he does get some nausea at times, and so far he has noticed none when taken in conjunction with these two anti-histamines.
     
  3. arizona79

    arizona79 Silver Member

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    Re: Kratom and Antihistamines

    Cimetidine (aka Tagamet) has acted as a potentiator for my ferret's kratom use. She notes that it increases her tolerance.
     
  4. promnthevs

    promnthevs Silver Member

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    Re: Kratom and Antihistamines

    SWIM knows cimetidine inhibits gastric acid production, but does it do anything else, like prevent nausea and/or itching?
     
  5. Electrolingus

    Electrolingus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: Kratom and Antihistamines

    Promethazine (phenergan) will potentate mu agonists and is commonly used as an anti-emetic. Always use caution when experimenting with synergistic drug combinations. Maybe not so much with kratom, but a moderate dose of a relatively strong CNS depressant or mu agonist type drug can quickly become a high or fatal dose when combined with another potentiating drug.
     
  6. Oxymorphone

    Oxymorphone Palladium Member

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    Re: Kratom and Antihistamines

    I agree, respiratory depression with opiates and opioids can certainly sneak up on someone at even moderate doses of potentiators. Anti-histamines have surprised SWIM multiple times despite being a fairly regular user with somewhat of a tolerance.

    However safe it may *seem*, caution should still be used with Kratom and potentiating it. SWIM becomes quite ill from it before he reaches a high enough dose to notice the respiratory depression present with many other opioids and opiates (and come to think of it, effects fade at higher doses (for SWIM), but SWIM has also noticed the friends he's treated to kratom all have a different reaction to the same dosages. Someone may find kratom to be far stronger than another, and SWIM is even surprised by it's effectiveness, he didn't expect much from something so.. legal.

    Always better to ere on the side of caution, as it's a waste to take more than necessary to get SWIY off anyway. One fuck up and there may be no more fun at all. Not breathing sucks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  7. promnthevs

    promnthevs Silver Member

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    Today, SWIM took 10 mg of loratadine a couple of hours before having some kratom tea. SWIM has taken loratadine before, so he knew he wasn't allergic to it or anything of that sort. SWIM didn't get itchy at all, although he did get somewhat nauseous at one point. After lying down and having a can of cola, the nausea went away.
     
  8. arizona79

    arizona79 Silver Member

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    Re: Kratom and Antihistamines

    Oh... she doesn't know. She doesn't really get much nausea and enjoys itching when it comes around so she doesn't pay much attention to that. Sorry she can't be of more help.
     
  9. promnthevs

    promnthevs Silver Member

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    Re: Kratom and Antihistamines

    Your ferret enjoys itching? I guess she would have to learn live with it given the little arms :p

    After repeated trials, SWIM has found that using cimetidine seems to lower the necessary dose, but no other benefits have been noticed. SWIM also takes calcium carbonate approximately 45 minutes to 1 hour after the cimetidine to avoid interfering with its absorption.

    SWIM also is beginning to think that loratadine is very effective in preventing itching, but not nausea. (SWIM only seems to get nausea after repeated doses.) Meclizine is probably the best choice for an antiemetic; for SWIM the drowsiness/ataxia incurred from an antiemetic dose of DPH dulls the euphoria.
     
  10. promnthevs

    promnthevs Silver Member

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    Re: Kratom and Antihistamines

    After some more reading, SWIM has found out that cimetidine is a different class of antihistamine. Specifically it is an H2 receptor antagonist. These receptors are primarily found in the epithelium of the stomach. So, it makes sense that such antihistamines wouldn't have any noticeable effect on histamine release in other parts of the body.

    Famotidine is another H2 receptor antagonist. Both of these drugs are available in the United States without a prescription, to the extent of SWIM's knowledge. Famotidine appears to be much cheaper, but perhaps it isn't effective.

    Inhibiting stomach acid production is a good way to increase the oral bioavailability of some drugs, but meddling with the inner workings of the digestive system is inherently risky. Worst case scenario: malnutrition. A more probable risk is bowel irregularity.
     
  11. AMKR

    AMKR Newbie

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    Re: Kratom and Antihistamines

    meclizine or Meclozine (aka dramamine II) is in Bonine, buut Cyclizine (Trade name was marezine) not sure why, but it was only in used to be the main ingredient Bonine for kids, they sadly discontinued it now people are making a KILLING Selling boxes of 8 pills - highest I Saw was like 120 on amazon, I lucked out and got a box for 24 dollars (Still feeling ripped off but still I want to know whats better promethazine or this as its more closes related to Atarax and people rave about it) and potientiated opiated quite a bit. Not surprising as its in the same family/class as Hydroxozine sp? (Atarax/Vistril) Which is just as good if not better ive heard than Promethazine at potentiating opiates best part is apparently not just codeine to morphine but everything see the from wiki quotes below

    "Some people using methadone recreationally combine cyclizine with their methadone dose, a combination that is known to produce strong psychoactive effects. It has also been used recreationally for its anticholinergic effects to induce hallucinations."

    It must be a really good potentiator of all opioids because they made a combination product,

    "The drug Diconal is a combination of cyclizine with the opioid dipipanone. Dipipanone is a schedule I controlled substance in the US, due to its high abuse potential."

    AMKR added 1 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

    *But it was taken off the market and now their both Meclozine (Dramamine II)

    AMKR added 2 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...

    Am I Missing something is the button to edit your post not working, it always brings me to the quick reply.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  12. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    As a newbie you can not edit. As soon as you reach silver level (by getting some positive rep) you will get extra functionality like the ability to edit posts. :)