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Drug info - Some questions regarding Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) and drug tests

Discussion in 'Hydromorphone' started by grizmoblust, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. grizmoblust

    grizmoblust Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    Oct 7, 2012
    from U.S.A.
    I've spent a few hours researching this, and have yet to find any satisfactory answers, so I decided to make a post about it, in hopes of having my speculation confirmed/denied/discussed.
    Due to probation I have drug tests more or less randomly during the weekdays, and is attempting to somewhat satisfy his opiate desires in the meantime. Hydromorphone seems to be the most viable option, due to a combination of his liking for it, and the presumed interactions with the aforementioned drug tests. The question is, if he takes 4mg of Hydromorphone on Friday afternoon/evening, could he reliably pass a 10 panel drug test on the following Monday?
    According to my calculations/research, the answer is yes, due to several factors. The internet still hasn't convinced Swim whether or not Hydromorphone would even show up on a 10 panel drug test, which is also something I'd like discussed here, but he's going to assume that it will.
    As far as I know, the lowest detectable amount would be 300 ng/ml, which should equal .0225 mg per kg of body mass. Consequently, if Swim weighed 60 kg, 1.35 mg of Hydromorphone would have to be in his system for it to come up positive on the drug test. It's a bit difficult to find the half-life of Hydromorphone via insufflation, which is his preferred ROA, but it seems to be less than 5 hours. If he insufflates 4 mg on Friday at 7 PM, then by Monday at noon 65 hours would have passed, or 13 half lives. This would leave Swim with .002 mg in his system, which seems to be low enough that there should be virtually no chance of him coming up positive for it if drug tested on Monday. During the Summer Swim once insufflated 4 mg of Hydromorphone, then was drug tested roughly 18 hours later, and came up clean, which could possibly help the case also. So, are my calculations, figures, and assumptions correct?
    TL;DR: Would Swim be able to insufflate 4 mg of Hydromorphone on Friday and not at all have to worry about a drug test as early as Monday?
    Sorry for the wall of text, this is a pretty important matter to me though since I care about Swim's well being and figured that laying out all the info and calculations for evaluation and criticism would be the best way of going about this. Any and all discussion, corrections, and comments would be extremely appreciated.
  2. baZING

    baZING Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    Nov 15, 2009
    from U.S.A.
    A couple of things to get out of the way before actually responding to your question: First, please don't use "SWIM" any more. It's a flimsy cover up and the powers that be here on DF are now actively trying to phase out its use. Pretty much any other method you'd like to use to avoid self-incrimination is OK; however, it is not necessary to avoid it when discussing drug use (just production, extraction, synthesis and the like).

    Second, please consider breaking a longer post into paragraphs next time. It wouldn't have been a wall of text if you had used some line breaks, and would have been much easier to read.

    I digress, though. As for your actual question, I hate to tell you that there are simply too many variables here to give you a reliable answer, namely if hydromorphone will be tested for, how fast it will get out of your system, lowest detectable amount, etc. I tried looking for things to cite what I'm going to tell you, but you're right that there isn't much available on this topic and what information does exist is frequently conflicting.

    Just to answer your question in the bolded text, assuming that hydromorphone does show up on a test, then no you cannot snort 4mg of hydromorphone on a Friday and "not worry at all" about a drug test the following Monday. Seeing as hydromorphone is so short acting, you probably don't have to worry much, but in no way is testing clean a guarantee using that kind of time frame. Hydromorphone, like almost all short-acting opiates, is detectable in urine from 2-5 days depending on individual metabolism. As I said, though, it's probably not too much of a worry (especially given your clean test 18 hours after doing some) but not a sure thing. Either way, I'm just trying to give you some cold hard facts.

    To be honest, I think the assumption that hydromorphone isn't tested for is a bit optimistic. A lot of tests nowadays test for "Opiates," and many different drugs will cause a positive read. It's a bit complicated as to how that works from a scientific standpoint and I simply don't know it well enough to explain it (I think it has something to do with chemical structure instead of the metabolites), but all I can say is that I'm quite certain it's possible to be tested for hydromorphone without needing a specific, specialized test. Yet again, however, it depends on what kind of test is being used and other factors. For tests that would only show up positive for "opiates" without discerning which, the results are often sent to a lab for further analysis... usually GC-MS.

    Where did you get the 300ng/mL figure from? Some tests can accurately read amounts lower than that. The most important question in that same vein is what the threshold is for a positive reading.

    On the plus side, I'm not sure how you did the math to figure out the decay after 65 hours, but I believe the amount left in your system would be much lower than that. Starting with 4mg and decaying by half 13 times, you'd be left with .0005mg in your system. This number would likely be even lower, seeing as by insufflating you're only getting about half of those 4mg in your system on a good day. Granted, those are theoretical numbers and unlikely to be exact as a drug's rate of decay also varies some by metabolism, but it gives you an idea.

    Anyway, that's all I have for now. Sorry that my answer all sort of boils down to "can't say for sure," but maybe it's at least some food for thought.
  3. KRSone

    KRSone Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    Dec 8, 2012
    from U.S.A.
    It may be a bit late but I'd like to add something here.

    Hydrocodone is metabolized into hydromorphone.
    I get random drug tests at work. I don't know exactly which test it is but it's a standard urine test. All the random drug tests I've had at work have shown a positive test for hydromorphone and at the time
    I was taking hydrocodone/APAP (Vicodin, Norco, etc.). A doctor from the lab calls me to confirm I have a valid prescription. The doctor will tell me that hydromorphone (and from what I remember the mass spectrometry shows the parent drug, hydrocodone too) was detected and gives the same explanation each time that hydrocodone is metabolized into hydromorphone.
    A simple google search will give you this info but for informational purposes and ease, I'll give it here. This is no guarantee that anyone will get the same drug screen. Here's how a SAMHSA 5 panel or 10 panel, etc. drug screen will go:
    The urine sample is split into two aliquots in the lab. One is used for the simple screen to see if they get a reaction. If they get a positive reaction to the immunoassay (the first screen) then the lab will use the second aliquot and perform a mass spectrometry test on it. It's very specific and shows unchanged drugs and their metabolites.
    There are too many variables though depending on the employer ordering the test. They might order the 10 panel plus extended opiate test which is just the immunoassay dipstic test which will test positive for natural opiates but also semi-synthetic and synthetic opioids. It'll test positive for oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, etc. but won't tell you specifically what was found.
    The employer might not want to pay for the mass spectrometry.
    I BELIEVE that's an option but I've also seen that if it's a standard SAMHSA any number panel it always gets both tests. I'm not too clear on that.
    Either way, chances are good that hydromorphone will show up on most tests. It's very common since hydrocodone metabolizes into it.