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Opinions - Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more details)

Discussion in 'Buprenorphine' started by at4r4xis, Dec 25, 2010.

  1. at4r4xis

    at4r4xis Newbie

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    Theres more to this general question;

    This isnt exactly the same question asked over and over again- I believe that if you try to take oxycodone while on suboxone that it with screw up the possibility of any effects after stopping the suboxone. In short, it may take longer to achieve desired effects if you keep trying to make the oxy work.

    you kind of build a tolerance without any effects while you are trying to stop using suboxone. So far I have found that it is best not to try and push anything and just wait it out until you feel it is right to try and use full agonists efficiantly. short term use of suboxone is not as difficult as the long term use, in terms of trying to make other opiates work but tolerance to it builds quickly. 60 mg of oxycodone was used today unsuccessfully after having taken the last of a 7 day+ 2mg suboxone plan (1mg taken yesterday-18 hours ago) I will post results to show whats going on.
     
  2. Killa Weigha

    Killa Weigha

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    Hey, welcome. This thread explains 99% of what your friend wants to know.
    http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151237
    Basically, subs inhibit uptake by blocking opiate receptors in the brain. You're wasting your good drugs, IMO.
     
  3. at4r4xis

    at4r4xis Newbie

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    the alternate receptor docking idea makes a lot of sense. how its a respirtory thing only..very neat. my friend is experimenting with the OP ones to see which method of use is best. i would like results though so that is why I brought it up and will post results of the experience for the triggering of the alternative receptor or whathaveyou.
     
  4. at4r4xis

    at4r4xis Newbie

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    10am dec 25th,
    slight breakthrough. 30-40% effectiveness followed by a strange deep sleep.
    again at 10pm, 10-20% effectiveness. each had its itchness as well and dysphoria.
     
  5. salgoud

    salgoud

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    Since the half-life is 36 hours, and it builds up in your system, IMO a good 2 to 3 days.

    Methadone is different, if one takes 4mg in the AM and about 50mg of methadone at night, one will feel it. That's because methadone competes with the receptors and half way wins. After 2 days the full effect of the long acting opiate can be felt.

    Then wait till your a little sick, and according to some, take a Suboxone and you will feel no withdrawals. That is after a 4-5 day binge on any opiate.

    salgoud
     
  6. tch2296

    tch2296 Silver Member

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    SWIM has been on Suboxone for several months now, started taking 16 mg for a few weeks, then down to 8 mg for like 2 months, just cut down to 4 mg/day about 5 days ago. If SWIM waited 48 hours, would a 60 mg IV dose of oxycodone get SWIM high?
     
  7. salgoud

    salgoud

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    People on Suboxone go back and forth all the time. The less Suboxone one takes the shorter the wait. Because of the build up of Sub in the body, I would think one would want to wait until mild withdrawals set in. Of course, it defeats the purpose of Suboxone treatment, but when I see others wanting to feel a real agonist euphoria, 48 hours would be enough, if a person could make it that long. Suboxone W/D's are pretty bad, even jumping off at 2mg. They usually set in 36 hours after the last dose.

    salgoud
     
  8. tch2296

    tch2296 Silver Member

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    SWIM knows that on doses of around 2 mg, he barely needs to wait 20-30 hours to get a great rush from a decent IV dose.
     
  9. Eden

    Eden Titanium Member

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    There is no empirical absolute number of hours that one can accurately state as an answer to this question. The one true way of knowing when someone can redose with a full-agonist and BEGIN to experience its full effect is by the level of withdrawal one is in. This varies greatly from person to person. For example, my pet monkey on my back knows from experience from being on his sub treatment for 3.5 yrs once that he has gone up 5 full days after stopping Sub. without needing ANY opiate of any kind to fend of withdrawals. One thing folks do have some control over is the ability to analyze and determine the level of withdrawal one might be in. Some are able to intuit this by knowing their body, others can rely upon scientific systems like the COWS scale:

    http://www.naabt.org/documents/cows_induction_flow_sheet.pdf


    NOTE:The COWS scale is generally used the other way around- when determing the correct time to induce Buprenorphine Treatment. However, it is just as accurate the other way around.
     
  10. tch2296

    tch2296 Silver Member

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    SWIM just IV'ed 30 mg of oxycodone an hour ago. He had waited 48 hours since his last 4 mg dose of Suboxone. He got a slight rush, with feelings of warmth and relaxation immediately afterward, but the effects were certainly diminished compared to when he is not on Suboxone.

    SWIM has been on Suboxone for 3 months now, a week ago reduced his dosage to 4 mg/day, so he thought he'd be good after 48 hours, but the Suboxone was definitely still blocking his receptors at least a little bit. He had felt just the slightest bit of withdrawals before doing the shot.

    SWIM normally does 60 mg IV and did the 30 mg just to test it out so he didn't waste a full 60 mg. He was glad he did that.

    SWIM will be IV'ing a full 60 mg of oxy once he reaches the 84 hour mark. That seems reasonable, considering he has only been taking 4 mg for the last week right?

    He figures that since he did feel a slight rush and mild euphoria with half his normal dosage, if he gives it another 36 hours for the Suboxone to wear off, and doubles his dosage, he should be good. Is that a safe assumption?

    SyntheticSatori added 1365 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

    Somewhere around 60 hours after my friend's last 4 mg dose of Suboxone, he woke up in the middle of the night with restless legs and watery eyes, yawning incessantly. At this point he proceeded to IV 60 mg of oxy, and got a pretty decent rush.

    He has come to the conclusion that the only way to be sure you won't waste your drugs is to wait until you begin to feel withdrawal symptoms.

    On a side note, after being on subs for 3 months, and seeing his entire life turn around, SWIM wonders why he needed to get high. It wasn't even that great, after an hour he was back to normal and down $60. This didn't stop him from going out and spending another $175 on oxys. He guesses that it's just the nature of the beast.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  11. Eden

    Eden Titanium Member

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta



    Yes, addiction is just that, a beast. What's that saying that goes something like," What is the definition of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?........" ;)

    Crazy isnt it? Even though you yourself have even stated along with myself and many others that you believe that in order for you to be able to experience a rush or high you would need to wait at least until mild withdrawals kicked in you still went ahead and tried it right??In the back of your mind you were thinking ,well maybe I will be different, or maybe everybody, including myself is wrong...hey I man, I've been there more times than I can count lol! Why do you think the OP started this thread?My guess is that at one point the OP was thinking the same thing...

    However, without preaching in any way, dont forget that relapse is a part of recovery my friend. You are taking careful measures to reduce the possibility of harming yourself in ways that you may not have understood. That in itself is admirable.

    Eden added 54 Minutes and 54 Seconds later...

    This is an interesting point, however it is inherently flawed. In fact regardless of the amount of Oxycodone, depending upon how long you are on Suboxone, the exact opposite is quite possible. Please refer to the second page of the link I posted earlier. The reason for this is because Suboxone(Buprenorphine)competes with the receptor sight and has a higher affinity(stronger binding ability)than full agonist opioids and so it actually expels them and blocks others from attaching.

    However, because Buprenorphine is a partial agonist it has a limited opioid effect(less intrinsic activity), enough to stop withdrawals but not enough to cause intense euphoria in properly-induced individuals. Because of this property, the receptor is occupied but not fully activated or excited. Over time (24-72hrs) buprenorphine dissipates but still creates a limited opioid effect(enough to prevent withdrawal) and continues to block other opioids from attaching to the opioid receptors. Now, throughout the entire process, it is important to point out the opioid receptors have been receiving only partial stimulation and have only been partially activated.

    Not only has there not been any increase in tolerance of the original opiate drug (oxycodone in this example) but it is quite possible that in many cases,dependant upon duration, amount etc of buprenorphine, that the tolerance has actually been decreased.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  12. salgoud

    salgoud

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    :)The only time Suboxone should be stopped is if one need surgery. Coordinating this with your Sub doctor is important, so after the surgery, there is no question why one is positve for opiates.

    Personally, I feel "no one" should go back and forth to Oxy's then back to Sub, etc. etc. Those on Suboxone are lucky to be on it in the first place. It is the beginning of a normal, "drug free?) life.

    Chose one or the other. Suboxone can be the key to sobriety and a productive life. Sure coming on it is somewhat uncomfortable detoxong from it, but there are ways around it also. My friend who was a 38 year opiate users, felt he had an "Epiphany" when inducted. He is doing great, got a job, goes to support meetings, and it himself again.

    I feel a break from Suboxone can be done safely once in a great while.

    Keep the Faith,
    salgoud
     
  13. tch2296

    tch2296 Silver Member

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    Of course, ideally, one would not switch back and forth. Unfortunately things don't always work out that way. Suboxone is practically a miracle drug in my mind and has given me opportunities I couldn't have had without it. However, there is something inside me that demands to be satisfied every once in a while.
     
  14. salgoud

    salgoud

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    That is the key, Buddy says also, once in awhile. It also depends on what agonist one takes.

    Buddy says if he is on 4mg/Suboxone a day, and wait a day and a half, and then does 60mg of methadone, Buddy strips the receptors away with the strong methadone receptor. Or levorphanol. Or even H. Buddy needs two of it.

    Buddy says it does take longer, before buprenorphine won't screw with your dose. It mainly shortens it. It maybe intense, but short.

    Once a month Buddy does this. Everyone needs a break. Buddy's just not sure what he should say, cause he got a 15 point infraction for self-incrimination. Buddy is my Avatar.

    salgoud
     
  15. at4r4xis

    at4r4xis Newbie

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    suboxone is strange. ive had some weird experiences with it. like, if i wait 3 days after my last dose, everything is fine.BUT if i try to take something 24-48 hours after, i develop this terrible tolerance
     
  16. salgoud

    salgoud

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    Buprenorphine is a strong antagonist. It is somewhat weaker than Naltrexone. It's no wonder one had to wait 72 hours.
     
  17. mikzemaj

    mikzemaj Newbie

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    So if SWIM feels w/d symptoms in the same day of using bupe, does that mean that most of the bupe cleared up already?

    Let's say SWIM takes a dose of 10 mg suboxone in the morning and by night he feels the w/d kicking in, would he have to just fight through the w/d symptoms for another 30 plus hours just so that he can start enjoying his DOC again? note: this SWIM's 2nd time taking suboxone...
     
  18. eggs

    eggs Newbie

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta


    hi, not to doubt you, but saw in another thread you made that your friend has been snorting oxycodone and started 3 months ago, having worked up to ~150 mg (correct if i'm wrong)

    have a hard time believing your friend starts going into into WD the same day after taking 10 mg of suboxone that morning.. are you sure those doses are correct? (thats a pretty high dose of sub for the oxy use you described, i would think friend would be set for AT LEAST 24 hours)

    regardless, if friend is indeed feeling WD's that early than a DOC should work, especially if hes only used suboxone twice, but yeah if he waited 30 hours it would work better.
     
  19. mikzemaj

    mikzemaj Newbie

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    Yes thats correct but i wrote it wrong. My bad..It's 10 mg with 2 different doses. 8mg in the morning and 2mg at night when the w/d symptoms starts to kick in... Now the w/d symptoms aren't severe or anything, they are just very mild but still, there are w/d symptoms present so i assumed that still counts?
     
  20. salgoud

    salgoud

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    Re: Suboxone 7 days+ How many days until you can use oxycodone efficiantly?(more deta

    What Leo's been doing sparanly works. Suboxone the antagonist/agonist and the 60 mg methadones pure agonist.

    So Leo takes 2mg that day, then takes some benzos and goes to bed. Morning time, Leo takes no Suboxone, and he lasts till 12 noon. Now he can do his goodies. People need a break once in a while. Leo has never relaspe from Sub.

    salgoud