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Combinations - Subutex and Valium

Discussion in 'Buprenorphine' started by debcreature, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. debcreature

    debcreature

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    Hello folks,
    Swim has a question regarding mixing valium and subutex. Swim has heard time and time again that if you do it right, it's a great high. Swim would appreciate any help and advise of how to do it correct.
     
  2. adzket

    adzket R.I.P.

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    swim has never heard this, as subutext does not realy give them a high, but they have been an opiate user for some time. the only people that get a buzz from subutext are none tolorant people. as for valium that to depends on doze and how used to them a person is for some 20mg is enough to get sleepy for others this is not enough to get them out the house. so it is very dependant on swiy and there use of theses substance in the past.
     
  3. Smor

    Smor Newbie

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    For SWIM 1mg Buprenophrine and 20mg Diazepam and maybe some Weed is a Great combination but if swim have a tolerance to opiods buprenorphine wont be good for swim
    Swim should start with 10mg valium may that be enought for swim if not swim can still redose

    Smor added 2 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

    Since i can't edit i must say that if Swim takes Opiods and Benzodiazepines together there is a risk of that you can't breath .
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  4. Spucky

    Spucky Palladium Member

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    AW: Subutex and Valium

    Normally Buprenorphin have a very low Potential of Breath-Depression compare to other Opiates and Opioide
    but in combination with a Benzodiazepam it will change,
    a Breath Depression will occur,
    this is important to know, so much the more if the Consumer is Opiat/ Benzo Naive (not used to do it)!
     
  5. lostparadise

    lostparadise

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    SWIMS friend use 1 8mg subuxone and 1mg alprazolam or 10mg diazepam together. It is very sleepy combo and swim recomand this only for anxious opiate tolerant swimmers. For opiate naive is best to start on max 1mg of buprenorphine.:)
     
  6. Naked Lunch

    Naked Lunch Silver Member

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    I take Subs and Valium (legally) daily, no problems whatsoever.
     
  7. Eden

    Eden Titanium Member

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    Buprenorphine can be safely taken with prescribed benzodiazepines at normal dosage, as long as the patient is tolerant to either opioids or benzodiazepines, and the drugs are taken in the dosages prescribed and by the roa (route of administration)prescribed, and not injected.
    Now the OP requested advise on how to do this correctly and that is what has been presented in this reply. As far as getting "high" from the mixture?This is highly ill-advised. The reason for this is because like full agonist opiates, buprenorphine can cause drowsiness,vomiting and respiratory depression. Taking buprenorphine in conjunction with CNS depressants in people who are not tolerant to either element can cause fatal respiratory depression.Sedatives, hypnotics and tranquilizers can be dangerous if ingested with buprenorphine by a person who is tolerant to neither opioids nor benzodiazepines.
    In summary, someone who is tolerant to either is unlikely to get "high" from the mixture.Someone who is not tolerant to either runs a significant risk of fatal respiratory depression if taking them concomitantly.

    Please, be safe,
    Eden

    Eden added 761 Minutes and 12 Seconds later...

    Oops, it appears as though this thread has been revived as it was originally started back in June!(thank you for whoever pointed that out.)

    Hopefully the info contained in this thread is important enough to merit the "bump".(I'll try to be more aware of posting dates in the future). :s
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2010
  8. Naked Lunch

    Naked Lunch Silver Member

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    To clarify: I am on a Legally Prescribed dose of 32mg of Buprenorphine and I can take up to 30mg of Diazepam any time of the day I choose or in smaller doses throughout the day.
     
  9. Eden

    Eden Titanium Member

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    Ahh well then you are just the person to ask. I am assuming you are tolerant and dependent upon both correct? When taken at the same time what is the result for you,if you dont mind my asking?
     
  10. Naked Lunch

    Naked Lunch Silver Member

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    Yeah I'm well and truly dependent. But there's no result actually. The bupe makes me feel normal as I used to have a pretty heavy drug problem.
    The valium is for anxiety, I have no idea why I get anxiety and panic attacks (at any random time but not daily) but I never did when I was a user. I had/have a high tolerance to opioids BTW. Far higher than it should be. So's my pet dog, when he occasionally uses, even if he's not on the bupe anymore he needs to take far more smack than should be needed to get high. His tolerances just doesn't seem to drop much even with big breaks away from it. I think I'll take him to the vet!
    The valium takes away the anxiety.
    But other than that I feel normal like anyone else.
    Although... I know its barely holding me as I often get depressed/withdrawal type depressed and other symptoms. Not always but occasionally.
     
  11. Eden

    Eden Titanium Member

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    Aww poor doggy. I can relate however cuz my donkey has had very similar issues.

    Your answer helps to confirm what I stated earlier, thats why I was playing "devil's advocate" in asking "what is the result for you?"

    Again,to the OP: In summary, someone who is tolerant to either is unlikely to get "high" from the mixture.Someone who is not tolerant to either runs a significant risk of fatal respiratory depression if taking them concomitantly.

    My donkey has experimented with the combination in the past. Every time he had mixed the two the result was the same thing every time-total sedation/no "high".

    Eden added 12 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...

    Naked Lunch-When I was on Subutex I had regular bouts of anxiety. I also had strong cravings no matter the dose. I had to switch to Methadone(legally), which despite my own doubts as a result of all the stigma and bad information out there, has proven a life-saving medication to me. Often times folks who have a large habit with full agonist opiates have difficulty realizing a therapeutic dose on Buprenorphine.
    Anyway, back on topic...so it sounds like you havent experienced any potentiating of either drug due to taking them at the same time right?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2010
  12. Naked Lunch

    Naked Lunch Silver Member

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    That's right! None whatsoever (positive anyways). I do get side effects when taking them together though, just the common unavoidable ones like nodding off during a movie or typing like I am now.
    I sleep a lot during the day most days, whether I have taken Valium or not, its the Bupe.

    I also get cravings occasionally, not mental cravings like a Heroin addict gets, but physical cravings where my body is calling out for it.ie: the start of physical withdrawal symptoms! This happens from time to time and certain things seem to set it off like a lot of physical activity for example. Stress also. Or if I'm daydreaming (which I tend to do a lot while laying down in lethargy on bupe) and thinking about my old life as an addict.
    So yeah, the 32mg dose is barely holding me.

    I have been dependent on Opioids for 15 years or so and of that time I have been on Methadone or Bupe for around 5 years total in scattered bursts.
    So I'm pretty much as dependent as one could be I gather.



    Back OT, I have heard of people on bupe, taking valium and then dropping. Unverified though.
    But I imagine if one is not tolerant to either and then one take both that its a very real possibility.

    An example of simultaneous Benzodiazepine and Heroin use is this: I know a dog that used to use Heroin and he realized that he could take benzos with Heroin to increase its effects IF he took the benzos first. BUT, if he took the heroin first and later took the benzos he would feel very unpleasant. His feelings on this was confirmed by people who took H first then had benzos and OD'ing. but if taken the other way, they never seemed to OD.

    Now, I wouldn't personally take this dogs story as 100% fact or use it as any kind of guarantee. its just what he told me he observed over the years.

    He also told me a similar thing happens when mixing alcohol and smack. if the smack was taken first he could easily have a couple (2-3) beers after his injection. But he could not have the beers 1st then have the smack as he would OD. This happened to him twice before he worked it out.

    Personally, I wouldn't take this as any kind of guarantee either nor would I have anything to do with illegal substances whatsoever!

    Please don't take anything I say about this as fact!! As I made some mistakes in typing this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2011
  13. Eden

    Eden Titanium Member

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    Interesting man I can completely relate. Also, its pretty interesting how much your friend the dog and my friend the donkey have in common. I will say that even though we are on different maint. programs I do get cravings at times similar to yours. I've noticed over the years that boredom or daydreaming are the biggest triggers by far especially if I am also going through a stressful time. I'm currently on a daily methadone dose of 258mgs which is probably enough to kill a whole room full of opiate naive people. However, there are often times when I feel its not holding me especially during times aforementioned. Sometimes my donkey has to seek out illicite benzos to potentiate his methadone dose.

    Question for you-were you prescribed the diazepam when you were on methadone maint.,what dose were you on and finally, which do you feel holds you better,the methadone or buprenorphine? If you dont mind my asking?
     
  14. Naked Lunch

    Naked Lunch Silver Member

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    I never took valium on Methadone. Methadone does hold me better...providing I up my dose every month.HAHA, the catch of methadone, its more trouble than its worth as your habit just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Whereas bupe will hold you indefinitely and kill your pain indefinitely (when it actually works...which is most of the time). Plus I cant go to the toilet on it (methadone), longest I went was a couple weeks and had to go to hospital cause of constipation, hard as porcelain!
    For example, People have a 1gram heroin habit a day, get off it and on to methadone, then they get off methadone after some months or whatever and have a 3 gram smack habit a day! Seen it many times.
     
  15. AnrBjotk

    AnrBjotk Mercury Member

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    SWIM tried this, and... well, he's not sure, but it didnt help very much. It made him very sleepy. So, no greater high really. Then again SWIM has never gotten any great high on benzos
     
  16. Photobug

    Photobug Silver Member

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    My turtle never caught a high off a Benzodiazapine neither. As for mixing Buprenorphine with any Benzos, whether it be Diazepam or 1 of the others, it can be done safely so long as you have some tolerance to both drugs. But if someone who doesn't use Buprenorphine regularly and Diazepam at least semi regularly mixes them, death can result. And as far as them producing a great high, I seriously doubt that. When my turtle takes Bupe he can't feel high from anything. Not even beer, which was always one of his favorite things to get high on. He tells me he no longer cares, because getting high caused him way too much trouble in his life. He is more than happy to take his Bupe for pain, and it also helps his depression. When and if he does mix a Benzo with it, he does it strictly because of anxiety, or to help sleep.

    So based on this, I say that when you go on Bupe forget about getting high. If you still want to live the Party life style, get off Bupe and do your partying. When you get sick of that crazy existence come back to Bupe. Buprenorphine is for people who want to get off opiates, or maybe can't due to being on them too long, but they want to feel clean and get their shit together. When it comes to that this is a very good drug. If you're using Subutex you may need a certain generic brand, or the Name Brand. My turtle is having a very hard time with the generics. But I believe all the Suboxone is name brand. So there should be no problem with that.
     
  17. postpunk

    postpunk Newbie

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    a large number of ex users get severeanxiety,panic attacks,some doctors claim a lot of ex users of heroin show/suffer signs of post traumatic stress dosorder,not caused by the drug itelf so much,but by the lifestyle that comes with habitual use,its not exactly a nice scene to be in is it?swim speaks from experience,has undergone counselling,helped slightly,but was temporary,swim still needs to take valium on occassions when the anxiety and fear of panic attacks prevents living a normal life,can face things that would avoid in the past,counsellor suggested asking swims doctor to prescribe benzo but doctor will not under any curcumstances pescribe-result =swim living with ptsd for years until granny gave swim a few bezo-result=function a lot better now.
    just swims personal view.
     
  18. Entheogen

    Entheogen Silver Member

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    Valium and Buprenorphine have a synergistic effect on one another, (one intensifies the other). Swim has personally used Clonazepam, and more recently a moderate dose of Librium in combination with Suboxone. Last week swim ran out of his Librium early and noticed a big difference in the potency of the bupe in his system.

    Also, if your not used to taking benzo's or Subs, it's probably not a good idea to mix the two as it can slow down your heart and may be fatal.
     
  19. Naked Lunch

    Naked Lunch Silver Member

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    I can understand that for sure.

    Personally in my case I think its more like I've lost the love of my life [smack] and cant always cope with out it. Life off smacks a fucking nightmare at times and the monotony is just unbearable.
     
  20. Photobug

    Photobug Silver Member

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    Re: Subutex, Valium & Other Benzos

    I've been trying to read the most recent posts here and make sense out of it. Not sure if I did. Are most of you on straight Buprenorphine, aka as Subutex, or are you taking Suboxone?

    I developed a bonafide anxiety problem about 25 years ago when I lost my career job. But I was keeping it under pretty good control using the occasional Benzos of Valium up until 1999. Since then I've been using Ativan and/or Xanax. I now realize that Valium was probably the least effective towards the anxiety. I find the problem with Valium is I used to become too dependent on it. I also finally proved to myself something the docs have been telling me for years. Valium either causes depression or makes it worse. So I've been using Ativan and Xanax for anxiety, and it's much better. I was on the Name Brand Subutex for 5 years, and very rarely needed the Benzo.

    But now for the past 4 months I've been on the generic Subutex, and I have a much worse problem with anxiety. And my current doc is being a ball buster and won't give me enough of the Benzos. I have also been sleep walking a lot, and falling and getting hurt. I just discovered that if I take 2 - 3 mg of Ativan a day, in 3 separate doses I don't sleep walk. This is a wonderful thing, but my doc would rather see me fall and get hurt than give me more Ativan. Here is what I'm curious about. 1.5 years ago when I was on Name Brand Subutex I had very little anxiety. But now with these generic Bupe tabs I have too much anxiety.

    This is why I'm asking you all what form of Sub you are on? You all seem to have an anxiety problem, as I do too. But do you think the Bupe that you're taking is making your anxiety worse? I believe the generic Bupe is making my anxiety worse. What about all of you?

    Hey Naked Lunch, I had to go off Bupe twice in the past 7 years because of surgery and bad back pains. Until last April I was off Bupe and on Oxycodone and MsContin. I noticed the same things you did. After taking Bupe for even 6 months, my resistance to short acting opiates has gone sky high. Even after being off Bupe almost 1 year, my resistance to pain killers is ridiculous. And it didn't seem to get any better. This is what you noticed with the Heroin, Naked Lunch. I don't have any answers, I just wanted you to know this is common.

    So what kind of Bupe you all taking? I'm taking the Teva brand of Subutex.