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Subutex (buprenorphine) & Methadone

Discussion in 'Buprenorphine' started by sweetsugar, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. sweetsugar

    sweetsugar Titanium Member

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    Swiss's friend is currently on a Methadone maitenance and got given some 8mg's Subutex, is it safe to mix these two?

    Also how long does Subutex stay in ones system?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2008
  2. blackdb1

    blackdb1 Newbie

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    Re: Subutex & Methadone

    Taking subutex or buprenorphine after taking another opiate will put swim into instant cold-turkey withdrawal. Swiyourfriend would have to be showing withdrawal symptoms to be able to take the subutex without putting him into withdrawal. Swim has never experienced this instant withdrawal but has heard that it is horrendously horrible!!! Swim thinks swiy should advise his friend to definately not do this!
     
  3. JaWill88

    JaWill88 Newbie

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    Re: Subutex & Methadone

    NO... DO NOT MIX THESE TWO!!! unless swiseet wants to go into withdrawal. well swim should elaborate on this a little more. if someone takes subutex (buprenorphine) while ANY opioid besides buprenorphine is in the system, it kicks the opioids out of the recopters and that person is sent straight into withdrawal. like fucking naltrexone or whatever. its aweful and it has happened to swim. swiy should go to www.suboxone.com for more information and read everything. going from methadone to suboxone is particularly difficult because of its long life. swiy has to be in full blown withdrawal from methadone before taking buprenorphine, otherwise withdrawal WILL occur. now if one is on suboxone, and decides to take some methadone, then nothing will happen because bup binds to the receptors stronger than probably any other opioid. swiy can shoot like 2 grams of tar heroin in one shot while on his daily dose of sub and not feel ANYTHING. so basically the only thing these subs are good for for swiy if for getting off methadone. if swiy wants to get off methadone, wait till withdrawals are really bad, take 8mg and see how swiy feels, if its not helping a whole lot swiy can go up to 16mg. more than that won't do anything at all. hope swim has been of help.
     
  4. sweetsugar

    sweetsugar Titanium Member

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    Re: Subutex & Methadone

    Thankyou for the infomation :)

    Swiss has a few more questions in regards to this subject.
    Is Subutex different from Suboxone? as Subutex is sold/perscribed in the Uk - if so, what is the difference?

    If Swiss's friend takes the Subutex, on top of Methadone and say he goes into w/d's (from the methadone???)would hehave to wait for the Subutex to clear from the body/system to take his next dose of Methadone? or if he did go into w/d's would he be able to takethe next dose of Methadone to stop the w/d?? if that at all is poss.

    Advise on this is greatly appreciated :)
     
  5. JaWill88

    JaWill88 Newbie

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    Re: Subutex & Methadone

    subutex is just buprenorphine. suboxone is buprenorphine/naloxone. naloxone is an opioid blocker and is only in the pill to prevent intraveneous abuse. when one takes the pill as directed (sublingually), no naloxone reaches the bloodstream. that is the difference between them. swim is on suboxone, and if he took methadone, it would do nothing, he would not get high at all. however he would have to wait till the methadone is out of the body before taking the suboxone again. if swim was on methadone, and took suboxone before all methadone was out of the system and went into withdrawal from it, swim is pretty sure swim would have to wait till all the suboxone is out of the system before taking the methadone again in order for the methadone to get swim well. btw, that would take like 2-3 days. buprenorphine has a half life of around 36 hours. hope that answers swiys questions.
     
  6. Relic006

    Relic006 Newbie

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    Re: Subutex & Methadone

    Well, I actually read this on a website. "Using buprenorphine and heroin in combination does not produce increased effects, but if buprenorphine and methadone are abused together, the effects of both drugs are enhanced. Consequently, diverted buprenorphine may be attractive to patients currently using methadone for opiate addiction therapy."

    http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs10/10123/index.htm
     
  7. Relic006

    Relic006 Newbie

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    Re: Subutex & Methadone

    And swim has taken subutex or suboxone, then swim took methadone the next day to feel the methadone slightly. but swim is on 3 subutex 8 mgs a day. so swim took about 60 mgs of methadone to feel well.
     
  8. User0

    User0 Newbie

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    Re: Subutex & Methadone

    I just have a question: my best friend is on long-term pain management for a number of things; too many to mention. She is disabled. The doctor prescribes her the fentanyl patch 75mcg and methadone 60 - 80mg daily. She is going to another doctor to get a prescription of subutex because she wants to stop taking the methadone. My question is this: will she be able to take the subutex while wearing the fentanyl patch without going through withdrawl? I would appreciate any feedback. Thank you.
     
  9. whizzkid

    whizzkid Newbie

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    NEVER EVER DO THIS!!! I hope people read this post before they even think of trying this, swim tried this one day as he ran out of meth for the day and decided to take a 4mg subutex 24 hours after to make him feel less sketchy round his girlfriends mums which is very boring, 40-60minute later had the shits, hallucinating, sweating like fuck and i mean sweating, it was pouring out of swim, it felt like the flu but 10x worse, he thought he had caught swine flu, couldnt move for 2 days until he struggled to the chemist to get some more meth, this has certainly made him think about coming off opiates altogether, thought it was fun on opiates as first but this was very scary, maybe what swim needed, his girlfrend was going to ring the ambulance she was that scared he was in such a mess but didnt want to waste ambulance time, could of been some kid run over out there! he didnt know wether he was going to live or what and couldnt make it online to view the forum for some advice

    swims advice is wait a good 72 hours!! please! for your own sake, he should of listened to the doctor in the first place
     
  10. Ilsa

    Ilsa Platinum Member & Advisor

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    ^^ very good advice (@swi-whizzkid)!

    just some thoughts on buprenorphine, the active ingredient in subutex: it binds to opioid receptors very tightly: "...buprenorphine may precipitate withdrawal due to its partial opioid agonist activity and high receptor binding affinity."

    "Buprenorphine Maintenance Treatment..." (thank you http://clinicaltrials.gov/), a study of bupe maintenance which, lucky for someone, includes some useful info on how bupe works: as mentioned, it binds mu and kappa opioid receptors more tightly than most other opiates, with the exception of the 3 types of mytraginines found in kratom. such high inding affinity allows bupe to displace the vast majority of opioids. it is capable of displacing moreover, it is a partial agonist/antagonist, meaning that it has a ceiling dose where it no longer stimulates the effects of opioid receptors, but actually begins to inhibit them (the plateau effect seen in the black line on the graph below), hence the withdrawals when taken too soon after a full agonist and :

    and...

    [​IMG]

    the above graph compares the receptor activation (in percentage on the y axis) to the dose of opioid, and it clearly shows the relative activities of the three general types of activity that a substance can elicit from the receptor it binds. so this ceiling effect, combined with bupe's binding affinity, makes it a highly effective method of maintenance and prevention (not without it's pitfalls, which are several, and defnitely not fun, but that's described elsewhere and thsi post is long enough already). defnitely avoid taking it when any opiate(s) is/are in one's system

    BE CAREFUL!! methadone combined with other opiates and/or alcohol is potentially deadly, with, swim thinnks from what she' has read that a fair number of overdoses involve methadone + insert opiate here* and it's just too easy to keep taking more, as it takes a very long time (at least an hour or more) to kick in.


    hope thisis of some use ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  11. whizzkid

    whizzkid Newbie

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    it normally takes swim 2 hours to kick in, even on an empty stomach, lasts give or take 24 hours until hot/cold sweats start to kick in

    swim said it is pretty hard not to try and mix with alcohol sometimes, never to much though.. it kind of helps because his tolerance is high, but he wouldnt recommend it to anyone

    when on meth taking other opiates like codeine and tramdol never seem to work, even when taking alot of tramadol caps, maybe 300mg+, so this could be dangerous swim guesses.. swim never had a bad reaction mixing these but certainly felt the effects with mixing subutex & meth

    if swim was going to quit full stop, swim wouldnt bother going on a subutex program now, he'd just try and stop just on meth just from totally been put off by the bad reaction, swiy's have to be careful, they say at least wait 48 hours, swim suggests giving kratom a go if swiy's have the money
     
  12. Sickpeache

    Sickpeache Silver Member

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    Swims nervous now. at 2pm yesterday swim took 15 mg of oral liquid methadone. swim have a pretty high tolerance, taking 160mg oxy and/or 70mg methadone whenever swim wants to get high. Lately swim's been taking suboxone and subutex to not get dopesick...anyways back to what i was saying, yesterday at 2 PM swim took 15mg of methadone just to not get sick. now today at 5 PM, swim thought it had been long enough since the meth that she could take subutex, about 27 hours?. So swim snorted 8 mg of subutex. She has not started withdrawals yet, but can feel the subutex working. Is there still a risk that she will go into withdrawals or is she in the clear? Swim is very scared now. And a bit ashamed since swim is always careful and safe when using. Someone please respond!
     
  13. berny

    berny Newbie

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    It is of much use, thank you. SWIM has a question though, SWIM is on subutex and just switched to methadone. This morning SWIM took his 8mg subutex then went to the methadone clinic and got a 20mg dose. SWIM would like to be on both for the next few days. SWIM thinks that since he took the subutex first the methadone had no effect as his opiate receptors were blocked. That makes SWIM think that as long as he keeps his normal subutex dose he will not go into precipitated withdrawl because the Subutex isn't knocking the methadone off the receptors, because they are still bound with subutex from his normal dosing, and the methadone did not have a chance to bind.

    Does this make sense? has anySWIX done it? Is SWIM putting himself in danger, not of precipitated withdrawl but of a dangerous mix of opiates? if they were dangerous to mix would not the doctor have not dosed SWIM with methadone because SWIM was on subutex?

    every story of precipitated withdrawl SWIM has heard of has been from people taking Subs while on other opiates, not people who are regularly dosing subutex and switching to methadone.
     
  14. Captain cool

    Captain cool Newbie

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    I have been on methadone 70mg for 8 years. This year I have reduced to 25mg and 10 days ago swapped over to Subutex 8mg.
    I took my last dose of methadone on the Sunday before Christmas at 9am and my first dose of Subutex about 4pm the next day. The first Subutex dose was 4 mg increasing to 8mg on the Tuesday.
    Within an hour of the first dose I was getting the chills and felt shaky along with mild flu like symptoms. I mood was fine but my apatite has been reduced.
    It's been 10 days now and I'm feeling fine. I'm actually feeling more relaxed than I was on the methadone.
    I tend to wake in the night in the early hours sometimes.
    I'm also prescribed Baclofen 60mg daily and 3 types of Blood pressure medication.
    Reducing from 70 to 25mg of methadone this year was easier than I though. I averaged about a 5mg reduction a month. I wish I had attempted it earlier.