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Subutex Vs. Suboxone

Discussion in 'Opiate addiction' started by GutterPhenomenon69, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. GutterPhenomenon69

    GutterPhenomenon69

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    Swim is on the metahdone clinic. swim plans to stay on meth. for a while then eventualy detox to about 20-30mg then make the switch to subs. swim realy would rather get on the subutex rather than the suboxone. firstly seems like swim wouldn't have to wait as long from the last dose of the methadone, to the first dose of the subutex if it was subutex and didn't have the naltraxone(opiate blocker). Iz this true? also for other reasons as well. Is there a way swim could get the subtex instead of the suboxone? or without the doctor thinking that swim just wants to get high? swim heard the blocker gives some headaches. any advice or experience with this feild? Also can one take other opiods for pain while on subutex? obvioulsy not suboxone as the blocker would do its work but as with methadone, u can take say a percocet or vicodin for pain even tho the methadone blocks the euphoric effects, the pain killers are still effective. swim wonders if the same would be applicable to subutex(bupenorphine alone).
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
  2. Dickon

    Dickon

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    Suboxone contains (in addition to buprenorphine) naloxone not nalorphine. Naloxone has minimal oral/sublingual bioavailability and needs to be injected to have any opiate antagonist effect. The theory is that suboxone will work identically to subutex (pure burpenorphine) if taken as directed, and the naloxone will only take effect if the pills are injected.

    There is some discussion as to exactly how effective the naloxone is. Buprenorphine is a partial agonist that has strong binding affinity to the opiate receptors (hence it will replace morphine/methadone molecules and because it only partially activates the receptors will precipitate a withdrawal in an individual dependent on most full agonist (the only exeptions to this rule that I know of are the likes of etorphine and carfentanil for which diprenorphine is used as an antagonist; these are used for sedating and reawakening elephants and rhinos etc.!)), and there are questions concerning how effective naloxone is in displacing it; i.e. there are a few people who inject suboxone. But this will only be an issue if you chose to inject.

    You are simply mistaken about being able to take a vicodin or a percocet when on methadone and get pain relief. The paracetamol/APAP might help a little, but if you're taking any quantity of methadone, the minimal levels of hydrocodone and oxycodone in vicodin and percocet would not make a difference. In pure form at seriously high doses they could be used. Further methadone itself could also be uses as a pain killer. If people didn't know you had a habit, and give you a usual dose of pain-killers, this would not do a great deal.

    I really don't know what the pain-relief situation would be on buprenorphine. I suppose a higher dose could be used. Some people report getting effects from using heroin over buprenorphine, others don't. I don't imagine they'd give you elephant tranquilizers, which might work, if you took sufficiently little not to kill you!

    Dickon
     
  3. Finn Mac Cool

    Finn Mac Cool Titanium Member

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    naloxone can help with cravings.
     
  4. Psychonautica

    Psychonautica

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    Suboxone is horrible. For the duration of the physical withdrawal (approx. 3 days) it is a godsend but then it just turns on you and it can only make you feel sick. Swim thinks she had an allergic reaction to the naloxone, evil stuff.
     
  5. ex-junkie

    ex-junkie

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    giving this thread a bump, because it would be interesting to hear peoples experiences, and whether they believe one is more helpful than the other.