switching from methamphetamine/cocaine/heroin addiction to psychedelics

Discussion in 'General Addiction discussion' started by drugs-bunny, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. drugs-bunny

    drugs-bunny Silver Member

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    this MIGHT sound like a dumb idea, but i was just thinking, a lot of people are addicted to some drugs, some drugs that have the potential to ruin your life (i'm talking about coke, meth, heroin, etc.), but then again there are shitloads of drugs that are mind-expanding, NOT ADDICTING, they give personal insights, help people to see their negative sides, and also show them what to do about it,can give profound life changing experiences, and are RELATIVELY harmless. offcourse psychedelics aren't for everyone, but if someone isn't extremely fragile mentally, or doesn't have any trauma, and is addicted to a drug to such extent, that it is fucking with the persons life, this could work.

    if the person that is addicted could get a hold of some acid, mescaline, mushrooms, 2c-e or any of those other psychedelics with introspective qualities, and take the drug with a well experienced friend, somewhere in nature, and maybe during the trip discuss the addiction and the problems it is causing, smoke a few joints, and THINK.

    or even better: go to a shaman and do some ayahuasca with him...

    let me know what you guys think about this, or if you know if anyone has done this and if it has worked for them
    (BTW i do not know how heavy some addictions might be, i have never been addicted to any "heavy" drug, only MJ)
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2006
  2. drugs-bunny

    drugs-bunny Silver Member

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    oh yeah, 1 more thing: offcourse if this would work mentally, there might still be
    the physical addiction, but if the person isn't too weak mentally, and the trip really showed him and made him understand how much he is fucking with his life, he might me strong enough mentally to fight the withdrawl symptoms, and become clean (at least, semi-clean, a LOT OF MJ might be a good idea:)
     
  3. Daeron

    Daeron Platinum Member & Advisor

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    haha. thats a weird coincidence.

    swim heres been off the stuff for 11days now, and unfortunately this approach didnt work for him.

    he started doing psychodelics some..hm..what 5 days ago? so basically the list goes something like this: salvia, DOC, TMA-6, 4AcO-MiPT, 2CE...all spiced up by generous amounts of MJ.

    not only that it didnt work but I think he has reached the point of super cross tolerance, when he just can not get high of psychodelics.

    plus sands made a very smart remark that one will keep doing the drugs that will have a similar, hell or even remotely similar effect as own addcition(amphs/meth/4mar, well just about any stimulant,really) so one can easily see that the Research Chemicals mentioned are rather stimulating.

    there are only 4 drugs in the world that I think give him deep personaly insight(lsd,psylos,4oh-mipt and strangely dxm)...but I will try an another approach. a "dont be a fuckin pussy and quit already you little pussy" 2 step program.

    its fairly easy(yeah right):
    1st step-stop doing it
    2nd step-stop whining about it

    the psychodelic experiences in the far past actually made swim quit for some time, it made swim realize that he is on a fast track to the cemetary, but in order to quit one must care enough...

    also swiAlfa suggested ibogaine, lotsa times over the past couple of days, but than again this comes from somewun who tried to commit flaming suicide with unknown extracts..... so no, no thank you.
     
  4. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    Mind that addiction has a lot to do with how addictive the personality is. Replacing one drug for another to get rid of addiction may well make it worse. But that depends upon the person and situation. I think just stopping is the best. However, a powerfull psychedelic experience might make you look in the mirror, remind you why you want to quit & and boost your motivation doing that. Acid tends to do that.

    Daeron, that 2 step program sounds much more sound than your zillion kind of drugs binge. Daeron, how can you ever stop if you're playing hyped up tweaker trance all the time. That shit makes me want to party. Now, where's my pipe?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2006
  5. drugs-bunny

    drugs-bunny Silver Member

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    yes alfa, but wouldn't you think that it would be better for someone to be "addicted" to say mushrooms or acid, then to meth or heroin?
    but offcourse the obvious and best solution is offcourse to just stop doing it, wouldn't it be nice if it was as easy as that, for some people it is, for some it isn't.
     
  6. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    To use mushrooms or acid daily, one would need a higher dose every day, to reach the same effect. At some point there is just no use anymore. One would need extreme amounts to get a effect. And these psychedelics are cross tolerant to.
     
  7. The Dr

    The Dr Titanium Member

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    Wasn't there a study with an over 50% success rate at treating alcoholics with a good dose of lsd...just once, in the right set and setting? It was back in the good ol' days ...maybe something to do with Leary. Im sure TFSE will provide the answer but i can't be assed myself.

    I know alcohol is not exactly a chemically addictive drug (although having thought about it im now not sure....i mean how do you define the difference between chemical and psychological addiction? removal of either kind produces chemical changes in the body does it not?) but the sucess rate is pretty impressive.

    I'm not sure this approach would work so well for stimulants....though it might just provide a decent enough window between things to allow one to sort ones self out.
     
  8. raven3davis

    raven3davis R.I.P. Palladium Member R.I.P.

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    Take a dose of psychadelics and see what happens. I have been in a situation where he was doing all kinds of drugs every day and psychadelics made him realize that he was on the completely wrong path and that he was using drugs for all the wrong reasons.

    Daeron is right though, many Rcs do mimic the stimulating properties of coke or meth. I think the 2cs in particular have a very stimulating feel to them. Another drug that comes to mind that might help you is ibogaine. It is said to give the user flashbacks of their entire life and they will look back and realize that they are complete fuck-ups.

    Addiction is a bitch but there are ways to get over it. You could quit cold-turkey, go to rehab, the possibilities are endless. However, I believe that taking a strong dose of a psychadelic drug might give you insight into your drug use and make you realize that it is not worth the risks.

    You are correct, being addicted to shrooms or acid is not as bad as being addicted to meth or heroin, but you probably wont get addicted to any psychadelic. None seem to be physically addictive, only slightly psychologically addictive. I would recommend the following psychadelics to help SWIM out and I will give a few reasons for each.

    1. Mushrooms - very powerful psychadelic and best of all they are completely natural. Shrooms will scare the living fuck out of you if you take enough and you may never want to take a drug again in your life. This was the case with SWIM one time. He made tea with a few pounds of shrooms and drank it all. He was so scared that he did not take shrooms for a long time and he didnt even smoke wed for a few months. If you listen to the shrooms they will tell you about your life and where it is headed. They will tell you that your life is headed downhill and that your drug use is the main cause of your downfall.

    2. DMT - SWIM also thinks DMT would be a good thing to take to get you off of other drugs. Again, it might scare the fuck out of you and make you never want to touch a drug again. It did the same thing to SWIm and he was scared to smoke DMT again but now it is his favorite drug. The entities might get mad at you for using other drugs and for the bad things you have done in your life. I have smoked DMT while drunk and the entities started yelling and screaming at him. They were so angry at SWIm so he does not drink alcohol much anymore, especially when under the influence of DMT. For some reason it seems like the DMT entities do not like any other drugs, especially man made drugs. DMT will make you question reality and your own existance and make you think twice about taking any kind of drug. It is not to be taken lightly and you need to be prepared for what will happen but I think it might help for addiction purposes.

    3. Ibogaine - I have no experience with this drug but has heard reports that it is great for heroin addicts. It makes you look back on your life and realize how many bad decisions you have made. The trip lasts a very long time also so during the trip (~2 days) you will be very unlikely to want any other drug. This might be good for the initial withdrawl phase. That is all SWIm knows about ibogaine he has never taken it so check out erowid for some more info.

    There are plenty of other psychadelics that might help you out. The list is endless. The only reason I am hesitant to recommend some Peas is because of there euphoric/stimulating nature. The euphoria and stimulation might make you want to experience the euphoira and stimulation from meth. I would recommend DOC over any other pea because it is not very stimulating. The experience lasts a pretty long time (~12 hours) so you probably wont be taking anything else for half of a day which is pretty significant.

    I dont think you should take psychadelics every day until you get over your addiction. Use them as a tool. One time should be enough. Psychadelics have shown swim everything he has wanted to know and many things that he really did not want to know. When he looks back on his psychadelic use, I think all his experiences have helped him as a person and helped him realize his purpose on earth. He also feels more intouch with nature and the universe in gereral. I could go on and on but hopefully this information will help you out.

    I used to love getting fucked up all the time but psychadelics really changed his outlook on drug use. Its not bad, but drugs should be used as tools. Hell, you can even smoke a lil crack or do a little tar heroin every once in a while, just keep your use under control. I think psychadelics will show you that there is more to drugs than "getting fucked up," and there are a lot of things about this world that those drugs will never give you insight to.

    Heroin, coke, crack, all those drugs are fun.....very fun, but there is only so much fun you should have with them. They will do their damage soon enough so keep the use to a minimum. It seems you have an addictive personality so maybe you should never use them again. Just get your use under control and decide from there.

    psychadelics>any other drugs (heroin feels wonderful though;))

    If you dont have experience with psychadelics now might be the time. In your current state, you might have a bad trip, but that might be exactly what you need.

    SWIM really never has been addicted to any drugs though so he cant relate to your experience much. I did other drugs minimally but psychadelics definitely made him do hard drugs even less.

    Hope this helps and good luck buddy.
     
    1. 3/5,
      good info for a addict
      Mar 16, 2006
  9. old hippie 56

    old hippie 56 Gold Member

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    LSD does have way of opening up a person mind to other possiblities, but if one is just trying to replace a drug with another drug, I think it is bad idea. Remember, a drug is a drug, no matter how you look at it.
     
  10. raven3davis

    raven3davis R.I.P. Palladium Member R.I.P.

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    Lsd is definitely another possibility. Cant belived SWIM forgot to mention it, it was afterall his first psychadelic to experience. You shouldn't looking to be replacing one drug with another though. Use any and all drugs sparingly. Its really not good to use ANY drug too often. Smoking marijuana everyday is definitely not good for you, but some swims do what the gotta do. Doing any drug daily can be harmful, but if used in moderation can be therepudic, fun, entertaining and insightful. Its all about moerdation. I dont recommend using any drug, but if you do just be safe and have definite limits. peace
     
  11. CrookedEye

    CrookedEye Palladium Member

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    LSD helped swim collect his thoughts and put some determination in his spirit to want to kick opiate and methadone addiction.. Iboga actually eliminated most of the physical withdrawal, and also really made all self destructive behaviors much less appealing.. I have quit smoking cigarettes, quit using hard drugs, quit drinking soda, cut way down on sweets, and eats much healthier... Psychedelics wouldn't actually be good replacement drugs, but with proper therapy or mindset, they can help work through issues set deep in the psyche.. Iboga can actually block cravings and withdrawals, so anyone serious about addiction therapy should do some research...

    Trip report about an Iboga experience: https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=140093#post140093
     
  12. jduba

    jduba Gold Member

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    it reminds me of the electric acid koolaid test (sp) a book about acid trips being true reality and using sid to reach this true reality or mental clerity. this just isnt going to happen. A drug addict (or anyone for that fact) may get some sort of enlightenment from one of these experiences but not "cured" from addiction (an addict is never cured). recovery is never replacing your DOC (drug of choice) but stopping all togather. On a good note it sounds like a load of fun.... we should have a drugs-forum party on a nice sunny hill and give it a try.
     
  13. CrookedEye

    CrookedEye Palladium Member

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    I dunno man, Swim sure feels cured... And whoever said you had to stop all drugs to beat addiction? I was addicted to opiates for 7 years or so, and now he doesn't need anything to feel okay when he gets up in the morning.. That doesn't mean he wouldn't enjoy another drug whenever he chooses.. He defintely doesn't have to have any drug to feel good and actually has a pretty awesome outlook on life and is happy just to wake up each day.. If you think this is some nonsense story, I suggest takin a look at www.ibogaine.org , as I am not the only one who has experienced this "miracle".. I don't think people should all buy into the idea that once you are an addict, you are always an addict as the 12 steppers may have you believe... I have had opiates on occasion in his two years of abstinence, for actual broken bone pain, and has no fear of potential abuse.. Both broken bones he's had, I was given vicodins, which he only took for a few days until the pain wore off.. Swim experienced no withdrawal or cravings..
     
  14. Daeron

    Daeron Platinum Member & Advisor

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    hey look nowun said that im going to quit doing all drugs. haha- no.way.
    naw the problem is somewhere else, its cos I got super tolerance to the stuff. had a gram a day meth addiciton, but the problem is that he, apart from doing speed lives a very healthy life, so he didnt feel all the "bad" effects til he actually though about it. and plus he honeyflow never stops, goddamit! oh well , to quit tina I did almost every other drug known, lol; so now in the end, he as a tolerance to most of them.
    shit even weed.

    so swims gotta sober up in order so he could be able to get high.
    thats the healthy reasoning,lol





    its like theres some mechanism in my brain stopping me from stopping drugs.lol. like my true essence of my being is it self high, like some fundamental state of being.
     
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  15. drugs-bunny

    drugs-bunny Silver Member

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    offcourse it is not an option to REPLACE one drug with another, but there is definitely a chance that some acid might give the addict just enough "will" to struggle, and stop the addiction, and most or all psychedelics aren't addictive, and even IF the person would replace METH for example with LSD, that would still be better than the meth, and anyone would get tired of doing psychedelics very regularely for a long period of time. at least, that's what i think
     
  16. jduba

    jduba Gold Member

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    CrookedEye thanks for the link and the insight. I myself have not had the pleasure of an ibogaine experience and have only heard some mention of it in rehab. For my own sobriety just "buying in" to what was told to me keeps me clean and sober and in a functioning lifestyle. Im interested to hear of your experience and how it molded you mind state toward getting high these days. once again thanks for the link I hope to learn more
     
  17. hazeinmybong2

    hazeinmybong2 Newbie

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    Do the PEAs help the cravings at all? Just wondering because of their chemical similarities. Maybe a few rolls would do ya good haha. They never did swim wrong.
     
  18. CrookedEye

    CrookedEye Palladium Member

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    I had started out at the age of 15-16 using drugs, which consisted of smoking cannabis and eating LSD.. He soon tried mushrooms, cocaine and ecstasy.. By the age of 18, I had tried quite a few drugs and had given heroin a shot when it was around.. I found it quite pleasurable but didn't have a source, and just randomly ran into it..

    I had done meth, coke, PCP, K, and plenty of ecstasy, among other things, but could do without them one day and then be done for weeks or months.. I had figured that all the talk of addiction and stuff was more propaganda and figured he could control anything... Well, turns out that was just because heroin seemed to fit his type of high... With the meth or coke, I would experience negative effects immediately after the buzz, which never made him want it for more than a night.. Swim only liked the rush of those drugs, but found the high unpleasant.. Swim never liked gettin tweaked out, stayin up all night, unable to eat, and felt weak the next day..

    Heroin would give swim the rush, but would also leave him with a 4-6 hours euphoric high, that was better than sex.. By the age of 20-21, I had began to hang with a more regular user(heroin + pills), which soon led to his having a steady source.. Needless to say he soon developed a habit before he realised he couldn't control it.. Soon he realised it was a problem and began the long road to recovery..

    He tried detoxes over 7 times, throughout a period of about 1-2 years, with him picking up use within a week to right after he was leaving the parking lot.. The withdrawal was unbearable and lasted weeks to months.. After an unfortunate incident involving the law, I had been already preparing to join the methadone program, and was accepted within a few days.. Swim kept his maintenance opiate dose going until he joined the program..

    I went through all the AA/NA meetings, been to groups, and counseling with all the detox programs and methadone. He was told how once you are an addict, you could never use another drug, as this would lead back to your drug of choice.. I always found fault with this, since he had been the happiest pothead and psychedelic journeyer before he hever developed his opiate problem.. Throughout his time on methadone, he had to go through a period of no cannabis, which wasn't as bad as he thought it would bee, and he would use large amounts of acid, grew mushrooms, and began to cultivate his desire to bee free of addiction..

    Swim researched iboga on the internet and was directed to a person who could provide the Iboga treatment.. I was "gung ho" and was already stepping down his dose of methadone for almost 2 years..

    Needless to say, if you have read the trip report and following link, you see it wasn't the piece of cake I had hoped for, but it sure made it easy, eliminated cravings, and set him far along the road to recovery.. It also nearly reset his opiate tolerance to lower than it had been when he began using... I believe without his extensive use of psychedelics, he would have turned right back to easing the pain, however..

    Swim also learned that use and abuse are different things, and can easily spot when habits are developing.. Swim cannot give an exact reason why he doesn't feel the urge to use just any drugs anymore.. I have quite a bit of experience with most substances, and is now much more choosey about his highs.. He also has grown out of the stage where he would just eat anything to get high, as the self destructive behaviors he was prone to seemed much less appealing after Iboga..

    The Iboga seemed to provide some sort of epiphane, which wasn't revealed in his visions, but rather in the days following the trip.. It was emotional, and I had to deal with all his guilty feelings, his overflowing emotion from being numb for so long, and the hardest part, the physical aspect and responsibilites he had neglected as an addict...

    Knowing what he knows now, I am confident that he can use any substance without abusing them, even opiates.. His body and mind feel like he was never addicted and never gets a craving for dope..

    Hope this helps to provide some of the background info and gives some insight into what swim's total experience has helped him to learn/achieve..
     
  19. -k4ge

    -k4ge Silver Member

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    I have heard of Cocaine Addicts doing Crystal Meth, to get off of Cocaine, then MDMA to get off of Crystal Meth. I have seen two friends go through this path, and it seemed to have worked.
     
  20. Sitbcknchill

    Sitbcknchill Retired Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Thats the best thing for you to do.........although not fairly easy cold turkey is a better way to drop an addiction rather than just moving on to the next addiction....