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Side effects - Synthetic cannabinoid withdrawal symptoms.

Discussion in 'Cannabinoids' started by heretoreadsomestuff, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. heretoreadsomestuff

    heretoreadsomestuff Silver Member

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    Hello,

    My pet cat passed a note to me earlier today and asked me to share it here. He says that he's utilized the search function and read some very good information so far, but he would like me to post here on his behalf to gather some additional information..

    Meow (my cat) has been using the synthetic cannabinoid smoking blends for 10-12 months. Meow previously had only tried marijuana, but for some reason, could never feel the same effects as everyone else. He tried ingesting it through smoking, vaporization, etc. He just could never get any effect from it.

    Until one fateful day.. Meow's friends introduced him to a new "incense blend" that was supposed to have similar effects to marijuana. Being curious, Meow purchased his first blend and instantly fell in love. The effects on Meow were miraculous. Perhaps THIS is what so many people were talking about that he could never feel. It felt great. He loved the way that this blend made him feel.

    As he got more experimental, this blend began to play a new part in Meow's life. Meow was using this blend on a daily basis with his friends. Meow never noticed any odd side effects that he believed to be associated with the use of such blends.

    Meow eventually started using these blends A LOT. Meow went from someone who smoked only during the evenings with his buddies, to going out to the local headshop and purchasing his own smoking apparatus and some additional bags of the incense.

    After purchasing this device, Meow's consumption went WAY up, and his productivity WAY down. Meow started to realize that he was letting himself slip in college, which he had previously not done before. He also realized that he was starting to really feel like he was in a blur, like the days were starting to melt together. He had an idea that it could possibly be related to the amount of incense he was using, but he was not initially concerned.

    It wasn't until the initial ban of JWH-018 and the other chemicals by the DEA that Meow started feeling a little off. The day after the ban, there were immediately new blends for Meow to try. He tried a few different blends and really found one that he liked. He has been using this blend now for approximately a month.

    Now, within the past week or so, Meow has been noticing some really strange things happening to him, and he believes it to be related to his use of the blends containing synthetic cannabinoids.

    Meow has always been a relatively big guy, and has always had a "healthy" appetite. Meow just plain loves food (albeit a bit too much, maybe), so he became increasingly concerned when he started feeling very hungry, but was instantly losing his appetite after eating the first bite of whatever it was that he was going to eat. Sometimes his stomach will hurt immensely, but he doesn't feel hungry, and can't decide on anything that sounds good to eat. He thought that this was very odd, and perhaps that he was just sick. So Meow waited a few more days, but when the loss of appetite was continuous over multiple days, he knew he was really in some deep stuff.

    Meow also complained of mood swings, feelings of depression, intense anxiety, etc. Meow is generally a happy person, and hasn't experienced these types of things before.

    Finally, the last strange symptom that Meow noticed, that ultimately lead to his belief that he's in some deep trouble, was his feeling of NEEDING the blend. Meow started to feel that he was in a haze when he woke up. It was as if Meow's day wasn't started until he had smoked a bowl of the incense. When Meow ran out of money, he became desperate. He started doing things that he normally wouldn't do to get his "fix". Meow was looking through his belongings for any old bags of incense, hoping that there would be some left to scrape, as well as collecting change just to get a bag. Meow realizes that this is completely not normal, and wishes for these effects to go away.

    Meow wants to quit smoking incense. Yesterday, Meow decided that he was going to quit. He consumed his normal amount yesterday with the plan being to stop today. Well, today Meow went quite some time without consuming his blend. His stomach cramps/aches, anxiety, and mood swings drove him to consuming 1 last hit of the incense. Meow has now decided that he is completely done with incense, and plans to stop the consumption immediately. After tonight, Meow wants to be free of this stranglehold.

    Now, meow's questions are as follows:

    1. How long should Meow expect to experience the symptoms of mood swings, small bouts of depression, anxiety, and worst of all, the dreaded loss of appetite and stomach pains?

    2. If these symptoms don't go away within a certain period of time, should Meow become concerned and see a physician? (veterinarian in this case.) How long should this period be? Is there really anything that a doctor can do other than ease your troubled mind and tell you to "wait it out"?

    3. Is there any way to know if Meow has suffered any permanent side effects?

    Meow realizes that he was using a research chemical in a very irresponsible way, and has now dug himself in to a hole that he's having a hard time getting out of.

    I appreciate any responses, and I will pass them on to Meow himself, as well as respond on his behalf.

    Thank You
     
  2. Mced260

    Mced260 Newbie

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    To answer ur question I will give a bit of info on swim
    swim has been smoking various canabanoid blends since july only taking one month off at the beggining of the year til the end of Jan... Upon quitting he felt random stomach cramps and was fiending for it and was having mood swings etc. All of this subsided after roughly 2 weeks without using. He had been binging for roughly 5 months almost every day.
    After quitting is meow is goig to and these symptoms are stil present after about 2 weeks ur kitty may want 2 go 2 the vet..
    I hope this helps!
     
  3. heretoreadsomestuff

    heretoreadsomestuff Silver Member

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    Meow sincerely appreciates the prompt reply. This information certainly helps ease his troubled mind. Perhaps Meow has himself worried a little more sick then he actually is.
     
  4. Exitlude

    Exitlude Titanium Member

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    My cat, Purr, sounds a bit like Meow. She's a cannabinoid-withdrawal veteran, going through it every couple of months. The withdrawal symptoms, for Purr, sound very similar to your cat's.

    Purr can only offer her own experiences (but believes her experiences are in line with most others on DF). She has - experienced all of those symptoms. In fact right now she's into her third day of of recovery after a couple of months of binging on JWH-018 every single day. Her consumption of cannabinoids (in pure form and in blends) has undoubtedly been at least an order of magnitude higher than yours, the equivalent of about 1 pound of very stronge incense per week lately.

    During the first withdrawal Purr went through the most worrying of her symptoms (difficulty eating, anxiety, anger, stress, headaches, pains, a lasting body load and mental fogginess) were quite manageable after 4 days, and had completely gone after 3 weeks. Each subsequent withdrawal has gotten progressively shorter and less severe.

    To some extent you've answered your own question - if Meow becomes concerned, she should see a vet to alleviate her concerns. However, from Purr's experiences and many other posts in this forum, you should expect to see a decline in the severity of Meow's symptoms back to normal within one month - going to the doctor before then probably isn't warranted unless Meow is really struggling to function normally. The value of a medical professional's evaluation and advice - even if that is to "wait it out", cannot be overstated. Don't put off going just because Meow thinks the doc can't do anything, they always can.

    Only time will tell unfortunately, it's the same deal for every alleycat who consumes RCs, especially when it's an unknown drug(s) of an unkown potency.


    Just before Purr trots off to the food bowl...
    The problem is that Meow was not using just a research chemical! Meow was using leaves laced with who-knows-what active ingredients, impurities, cuts, etc. As a result her withdrawal symptoms cannot and should not be attributed solely to synthetic cannabinoid agonists.
     
  5. bufalantan

    bufalantan Newbie

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    With in 2-4 days your cat will most likely be 90% normal.... the other 10% might take up to a month... so just relax and see how it goes for the next two days.

    Coffee and dark chocolate usually help a lot.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  6. heretoreadsomestuff

    heretoreadsomestuff Silver Member

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    Thank you for your input. Meow appreciates it!

    Meow made some changes to his night/morning routine and found it much easier to wake up this morning. He actually made it to his kitty job on time! (which he used to do all the time, but was having some issues with since these problems arose)

    Hopefully you're right about Meow being O.K. in just a couple of days. This information helps ease Meow's brain and he has noticed today that his anxiety/depression haven't shown themselves nearly as much today!
     
  7. CORNELL

    CORNELL Newbie

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    Swim's Little turtle gave me the note about his withdrawal symptom, and I decided to transcribe his experience for others who might be concerned:
     
  8. camorandis

    camorandis Newbie

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    SWIM is still undergoing intensive withdrawal symptoms over 2 weeks after stopping cold turkey (8 months of daily consumption). These include, but are not limited to: nausea, vomiting, cold sweats, palpitations, high blood pressure, dilation of pupils, insomnia, anxiety, nightmares, mood swings, decrease in creativity/motivation, depression, lack of sexual desire, inability to sleep longer than 3 hours at a time, and extreme urge to relapse.

    Although the nausea is slowly subsiding. SWIM wakes up very hungry, but immediately would get sick after taking the first bite. This is possibly the most annoying side effect, not being able to eat is a horrible feeling.

    SWIY may find himself experiencing additional withdrawal symptoms to whatever other ingredient(s) were in SWIY's blend. SWIM found that smoking damiana leaves, the other main ingredient in SWIM's homemade blend, helped relieve some of his withdrawal symptoms, although it is very possible that this is a placebo effect.
     
  9. AciD_BurN

    AciD_BurN Newbie

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    My friends beagle had anxiety and insomnia after she stopped cold turkey using JWH blends several times a day for 2 years plus. She went to the vet and got put on a low dose of celexa (10 mg) and after 2-3 days the anxiety went away. She has been taking it for 5 days now and is beginning to get her ability to sleep back although she still wakes up a few times each night. She suffered from the insomnia for about 10 nights before seeking some help from her vet and is now glad she did. The only side effect she is getting from the celexa is some sweating in her front paws for about an hour after taking the celexa. This is a minor inconvenience compared to almost complete lack of sleep.
     
  10. edsid

    edsid Newbie

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    the simple way to avoid these symptoms is to not use these blends everyday. my dog's alien was Using 2-3 times a week for a few months now, and has had virtually no withdrawal after being off of it for two weeks. Appetite feels slightly decreased, but the alien says it's more in a good way (He doesn't need to reach for that second big mac). My alien would avoid antidepressants and benzo because they carry serious risks and dependancy concerns. He would recommend nyquil (up to 2x recommended dose) to help with insomnia, and a trial of vodka (3-4 days max, buzzed not drunk) to get over the "hump".
     
  11. myexperience

    myexperience Silver Member

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    Okay, I have only seen a few posts about the effects of withdrawal (detox) from spice, incense, K2, or whatever you would like to call it so I decided to sit down and write one. I’ve got a friend that lives in Alabama and is a member of the military. He knows someone that was on this stuff pretty heavy and shared his friends story with me. Now that his friend is completely off of the stuff and back to normal he can see how destructive the drug was. I personally am not against anyone that wants to use, I just believe people should make an educated decision before taking such a risk. Personally I am against drug laws. I think that if an individual wants to use drugs to the point that it destroys their life then they should be able to. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be urged to go to rehab, but I do not believe they should be criminally punished****. I put asterisks because I only agree with this statement as long as the individual does not interfere with any other individual’s life, property, or pursuit of happiness. Kind of like the seatbelt law; I should not be forced to face a fine for something that will not affect someone else in any other way whether I’m wearing it or not. I also believe that marijuana is a MUCH safer drug than this, as does my friend. Unfortunately, this was the legal alternative, so the guy decided to stay legal.

    I’m not here to give my opinion on what should be legal or not so let me get into my spill. He smoked on and off for about a year and started smoking in quite often in the last 3 months (Aug., Sep., Oct. 2011). He smoked every day, staying high the whole time. He was spending $60 a day to fuel his intense desire for this drug. He was smoking so much that his body would wake him up every 2 hours every night and the first thing he would think about was smoking. He would smoke and fall right back asleep. He was hooked badly, but if you would have asked him then…no he didn’t have a problem at all and could stop anytime he wanted. So when he flew to Texas to be in his friend’s wedding (gone 5 days), he knew that he was going to be without it. This didn’t really bother him because he didn’t know that there would be any symptoms of withdrawal. Wrong. The first thing that he noticed was a small panic because he couldn’t get his drug. All that he thought about was how bad he wanted to smoke. Every conversation he had referenced smoking in some way. He would say stuff like “this would be so much cooler if I could smoke.” During all of this, he had HORRIBLE sweats. He could NOT control his body temperature. He would start randomly sweating and then get really cold. He said it was so weird. Also he noticed that his mind kept going blank in the middle of his conversations. He literally would be mid-sentence and forget what he was talking about. He really started feeling weird about 24 hours into it. Everything felt as if it was a dream for the next 24-48 hours. This was the worst feeling because his reality felt so fake; as if it were a vivid dream and if he blew his head off that he would just wake up…not a good thing. This may be because he also could not sleep. His body wasn’t waking him up every 2 hours now; he couldn’t even get to sleep. His body was expecting this drug to go to sleep; therefore he got probably 10 hours of sleep in that whole week. The final symptom was the inability to eat. If he did force himself to eat, he would just throw every bit of it back up a few moments later. It was a chore to keep water down, so dehydration is a definite possibility. When he smoked he gained 40 lbs. because all he did was eat, sit on the couch, smoke, and watch movies. This was it. This is TOTALLY against his belief about taking care of his body. During his week stay in TX he probably ate one meal. He lost 20 lbs. It wasn’t that he didn’t want to eat, he would actually go somewhere and order something, but as soon as he put it up to my mouth, he had no desire to finish the meal.



    I haven’t even mentioned the side effects of the using the drug. He gained a smokers cough, actually it was worse. Every time he breathed he was wheezing and whistling. He sounded like he had the flu, but he could never cough anything up (he did after he quit). Also, while smoking he noticed that his libido had almost disappeared. He had no sex drive at all. All he was interested in the whole time was getting high.

    So, he gets back from TX and what does he do? Go right back to the drug. His symptoms were starting to fade by then but he was still thinking about smoking. Unfortunately about 3 weeks later, after he had grown his tolerance back by smoking nonstop, the state of Alabama made the stuff illegal and he went through the whole process again. Now that he is off of the stuff he sees how destructive it was. He became so unhealthy and didn’t even realize it. This unnatural stuff should be avoided at all costs. I know most smokers that read this won’t believe his story, because he was one that read stories and said nah, not me. All I have to say is, if you know that you will have to be coming off the stuff soon, try your best to gradually wean yourself off. This stuff is HIGHLY addictive and trust me, you do NOT want to detox. He said it was the worst feeling. It takes about 7-10 days to completely be symptom free if you quit cold turkey and were an avid smoker like I was, less if you smoked less. **Remember that he did not do this experiment in a controlled environment and this is probably not the worst symptoms, and they are not the least. Every individual is different and may experience different degrees of each of the withdrawal symptoms. I do not know if this product causes cancer, death, or any other long term side effects but now that he is off of it, he will never go back. I hope that he never shows any more consequences of his uneducated decision to use this stuff.

    I hope that this has given some insight to anyone that was wondering about this drug and any possible withdrawal effects. Good luck getting off of the stuff. Go all natural!! Haha. I would if I could, but I’ve got an obligation. ANOTHER THING!!!---don’t think that drinking alcohol will help you overcome this detox, he tried it and you can’t keep any drink down. In general, he is A MUCH happier person now that he is off. As soon as his detox symptoms disappeared life seemed so much grander. He is happy about everything, much more than before he’d smoked the stuff, so he is kind of am happy that he experimented (sorry parents). He is much more outgoing and feels compelled to interact with strangers or do something randomly goofy (He is normally very reserved) just to make his day that much better. It’s like he is happier to be alive, kinda hard to explain. My friend said he can definitely tell a difference in his friend and tells me that she likes sober him so much better, his friend concurs.

    So as a recap here are the symptoms:
    Dream like state (vivid dream)
    Paranoia
    Loss of appetite
    Loss of desire
    Nausea
    Dehydration
    Vomiting
    Loss of sleep
    Loss of train of thought
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  12. P1-O2

    P1-O2 Silver Member

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    If you find yourself smoking this drug more than twice per day, I recommend keeping tabs on your mental and physical health. Once I started smoking up 3-4 instances per night at 20-30mg of blend (or 3mg+10mg of pure chemical/blend mix) the side effects kicked in fast. My appetite has dropped from ~2.5 meals per day to less than one. The loss of appetite is frightening. You can feel very hungry but only eat a small amount, if anything at all. I would find myself fixing a sandwhich to eat and having to take it in steps so that my stomach would keep it down.
     
  13. mervinm86

    mervinm86 Silver Member

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    my pet alien Alf started using synthetic blends after being on probation. after doing some research Alf beleived them to contain am2201. at first they were great, and Alf was amazed at the potent head-high, and even enjoyed the shorter duration (didn't leave Alf out of it for hours, 30 min was perfect!). Alf's tolerance grew very quickly and after about a month, and Alf started noticing many negative side effects.

    Alf thinks am2201 is a very potent, very addictive, and very harmful substance. it has all the ingredients for abuse; 1) a near instant powerful high that is short in duration, 2) tolerance builds rapidly, 3) easily obtainable. Alf noticed that it would take more and more to get the desired effects, and the high would be shorter in duration. while Alf was able to maintain school/work life, he would crave smoking it throughout the day.

    Alf began to feel depressed, detached from reality, and noticed a strange sense of time distortion. hours and days would seem to fly by while Alf was in a sort of haze. Alf lost all motivation, and no longer enjoyed his daily activities as he once did. just to get out of bed in the morning Alf had to smoke. Alf knew he had to quit, and was aware of withdrawals. Alf tried cold turkey, but didn't make it over a day w/ the stuff just lying in his drawer. Alf tried using kratom to ease the cravings, but that just led him to smoke while on kratom. the dissociative/opiate effect was amazing, and Alf just abused both the entire wknd instead of getting off the am2201.

    Alf has tried many drugs, and has had stints of opiate addiction (oxy, H). Alf says he would absolutely consider am2201 to be one of the most addictive drugs he has ever done. no physical withdrawals, but the mental addiction is very intense. Alf feels terrible after only a month of use, and does not want to make things worse. Alf plans on flushing the rest of his blend down the toilet after one last night. Alf feels that is the only way he can quit, and he still worries that it will not be enough.
     
  14. mrsolearyscow

    mrsolearyscow Titanium Member

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    I don't want to wander too off-topic, but how do you think the addiction risk of AM-2201 compares to the addiction risk of heroin?

    Whenever I read about AM2201's potent high, withdrawal symptoms, and tolerance build-up, I always end up wondering how it compares to the 'hard' drugs.
     
  15. P1-O2

    P1-O2 Silver Member

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    Even when exercising the utmost self control, AM-2201 is so ridiculously powerful it's hard to justify ordering any more after I run out. The high it gives is an interesting experience due to the infamous "fear" it causes at high doses. It'll take you for a train ride, that's for sure.

    The only way I can enjoy it on a daily basis is with a trace of powder 1-2mg sprinkled over tobacco. Makes a good smoke that perks you up for ~30 minutes.
     
  16. hatrix

    hatrix Silver Member

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    My cat has been smoking an AM-2201 + JWH-122 blend for a couple weeks now.

    He has noticed increased anxiety in social situations with regular everyday smoking. He feels as though its mostly from going to bed while still very high, as he usually smokes his most right before sleeping. It causes him to wake up groggy and tired.

    He is going to try abstaining from smoking blends everyday and cut consumption down significantly before bed. So far after just one day of not smoking, his overall energy feels better and feels comfortable when sitting in his college classes.

    In his opinion, if you are going to smoke blends, limit your daily usage, and possibly even skip days during the week so you don't experience any of the side effects associated with constant consumption.
     
  17. Basoodler

    Basoodler Titanium Member

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    My mouse had a lot of success quitting drinking with help from Am-2201 blends (another thread entirely). This was a god send for him. In the last week Ohio imposed its ban and my mouse has been without for three days. He typed this post up for a mouse drug forum! I will copy and paste.

    " I have had the insomnia and eating issues which by the way is a nice trade off for the alcohol WD's I somewhat bypassed.

    Today however I have this odd feeling like I am fiending for something. Almost like when I would try to quit drinking, or after I would run out of booze early in the evening and wanted more. Its odd because its not for anything specific. Maybe it will pass in a day or two :p Hehe I was looking at my DPH bottle thinking about downing a few gel caps at 1pm... You know something is going on when your mouse brain is saying " I want me some DPH this afternoon" "

    An odd day for the mouse indeed. Btw the mouse resisted the urge.. I would hate to see him in that state.
     
  18. P1-O2

    P1-O2 Silver Member

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    Give it another day and make sure he's keeping himself busy. Tell him to try doing something he enjoys (I prefer reading a book) when his urge becomes too strong. After lowering dosage, I started taking a daily multivitamin and restoring my nutrition which had fallen due to the side affects of AM-2201 which cause appetite loss. His body has to reset its "base line" and that can give a feeling of "something missing" or "fiending/needing" without cause.

    Effects can range widely though, so hang in there! I'm thrilled to hear that the mouse was able to stave effects (at least partially?) of WD from Alcohol.
     
  19. Basoodler

    Basoodler Titanium Member

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    My mouse had been drinking a bottle a day of diluted vodka for over five years, sometimes more. My mouse had a good job that required him to work a ton of hours and this summer it was put on the line because the stupid mouse was coming in hungover and was late a lot. So in June the mouse found these blends at a tobacco store and used it to help taper down on alcohol. He got down to a can of steel reserve a night which seemed manageable until he fucked up one day and drank 2 bottles of the finest diluted vodka and passed out before his gf got home. After that day my mouse went cold turkey with booze.. the mouse shared a couple J's of stronger blends with his GF every night after that, and really had no WD from the alcohol aside from one night of not sleeping and lack of attention span for a couple weeks. So in my Mouses case I would say it killed 80-90% of the hell.. I can remember him freaking out about going a whole night without drinking.

    My mouse had a few painful attempts to stop drinking in the past.. He gladly accepts this WD off Am-2201 over alcohol. I just thought the feinding was odd today.
     
  20. P1-O2

    P1-O2 Silver Member

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    Compared to the hell that mouse would have gone through compared to AM-2201 it probably was worth it. Tolerance builds fast but it also relaxes fast. I'm guessing the mouse should be able to manage it well even if he messes up once or twice.