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Combinations - Taking Kratom with an opiate tolerance

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by Space Numpty, Jan 1, 2010.

  1. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

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    SWIM's experience report is Here

    He has a question, but as it will take the experience thread off topic, he has made a new thread.

    Do SWIMmers know if having a tolerance to opiates will give him an automatic tolerance to Kratom? If that is the case then maybe SWIM's dose was too low and that would account for the relatively mild experience? (Apologies if this has been asked before, I have UFTSE and cant find anything)

    I am pretty sure that from the large range of Kratoms that his supplier has on their website and bearing in mind they claim to be a specialist kratom supplier that the Kratom he got is good quality stuff. Maybe the UEI will be better for him. He intends to dose 1g first time, but he may start with 500mg and see how he goes.

    Any advice is appreciated :vibes:
     
  2. Electrolingus

    Electrolingus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    If one is an experienced opioid enthusiast, kratom may prove to be somewhat non opioid like in effects the first few times it is experienced. At least that's how it was for Gus. Having an opiate or opioid tolerance does not make Gus tolerant to the effects of kratom, but it does change the type and range of effects that kratom can produce to a certain degree. It still provides stimulation and a degree of energy, but its full agnostic effects are less noticeable. Plus... Gus did not start to fully experience the more subtle opiate like effects of kratom until he had enjoyed Maeng Da and Red Vein strains more than once. Bali kratom is too inebriating (dizzy) for Gus's taste.

    Many life forms report a synergistic effect from combining kratom and opiates. Gus has found this to be the case as well, but only with relatively low doses of kratom. Ingesting 3-4 grams of Maeng Da powder or an equivalent will pleasantly enhance an opioid buzz, but too much kratom has a tendency to make the combination less 'opioid like'.

    Everyone responds differently to kratom and its combinations (especially with opiates or opioids). Effects differ with types, strains, and varieties of kratom in addition to batch quality. So just because it is a certain way for Gus, doesn't mean that anything is written in stone.
     
  3. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

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    Kratom and Opiate Tolerance

    Apologies if this has been asked before, I have UTFSE an cant find what hes looking for.

    SWIM neds to clarify. Will a tolerance to Codiene effect tolerance to Kratom. Clearly they both target the opiod receptors and so SWIM assumes that if you have a tolerance to opiods/opiates you will automatically have a tolerance to Kratom, but SWIM admits his bio-chemistry knowledge is not top shelf.

    SWIM asks this as he takes Codiene and i would be great if he could rotate Kratom and Codiene use thus keeping his tolerence to both substances lower and also keeping the risk of addiction to a minimum.

    I am looking for a definative answer to this so, please, dont respond if you are just going to guess. Only respond if you genuinely know the answer. Thanks in advance :vibes:

    P.S SWIM jusr remembered he made a similar thread before. SWIM's bad, please merge threads Mr/Mrs Moderator. He is still looking for and answer though.
     
  4. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Re: Kratom and Opiate Tolerance

    Tolerance is more complicated than simple the target receptor. It also involves lots of metabolic pathways. Swim never noticed a tolerance between his heavy tramadol use and kratom, but tramadol is hardly a typical opiate.

    Given the differences in metabolism, I would suspect that if any tolerance were to develop, it would only be partial, unless the user was extremely opiate tolerant as may be seen with heavy, chronic opiate use.
     
  5. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

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    Re: Kratom and Opiate Tolerance

    Just as a point of interest and as an observation, SWIM notes that he does seem to have some tolerance to Kratom or rather a pretty rapid onset of tolerance since he has been using Kratom, which he feels could be linked to his codiene tolerance.

    As reported in the experience thread, SWIM's first trial of kratom, using premium bali powder (8g overall) was a pleasant enough expereince all things considered. His next experience was with 1g of UEI Kratom and he had strong results, strong enough for him to think maybe he overdid it with the dosage. Since then I have used up is supply of 50g bali/3g UEI, not gone silly and up until today had not used it for 48 hours. After the first two experiences SWIM again had a nice time on the bali, but did note lessened effects. The same applied to the UEI.

    So now I have got his second shipment, after 48 hours abstainance. In the afternooon he did 10g Thai red vien premium powder on a completely empty stomach. Not so keen on the Thai (sorry SWIIanZombie :)). Felt a bit twitchy on it like a good caffiene shot, and little euphoria if any. Later on before he ate he took 5g of Golden Indo Powder. Nicer effect now, butterflys, mild euphoria. A couple of hours after eating I took another 5g Golden Indo. Nice buzz after a while, chilled, reasonable euphoria but takes a while to full effect (probably due to the fact I had eaten a couple of hours earlier)

    Now for shits and giggles I have just taken 1g UEI and 120mg Codiene Phosphate, lets see if he nods :rolleyes:

    Anyhoo, the conclusion is that I feel his tolerance to Kratom has ramped up pretty damn swiftly. SWIM imagines it could well be linked to a tolerance to Codiene. Either that or his sources regular leaf isnt as good as his extracts. If I had used daily he could understand it but after 48 hours abstainance he has ended up using a pretty hefty dose for a newbie like himself to achieve the desired effects.

    Fun, but at this rate it might work out cheaper to take up a smack habit :laugh:

    I am getting a creeping feeling he may well be ripped to the tits in about an hour from now as soon as that UEI works its way round his chinese.:)

    On the subject of ROA, SWIM may try out a tea recipe. He imagines that the process will release the alkaloids into the water thus giving a more concentrated hit to SWIM's system rather than relying on his stomach to process the powder itself. He just CANNOT be fucked with standing over a stove for half an hour when toss'n'wash is so simple. Sorry I am rambling :vibes:
     
  6. magister

    magister Silver Member

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    Re: Kratom and Opiate Tolerance

    Did SWIM go 48 hours without Kratom alone, but still using codeine, or abstinence from both.

    If making tea try to lowere PH or watch with some lemon juice, it improves the absorbtion of the Kratom alkaloids.

    I would say that Kratom and Codeine are in the same league, flipping between them would not improve tolerance to either. Flipping pans on the fire is a well known technique to avoid tolerance/addiction to any drug, it is most effective to flip to a drug in another category. Flipping from opioid to benzo will work but these classes are both under the more general catagory of downers, and tolerance to either is not nice. Why not try a couple weeks on speed? of course when SWIM finally crashes I will love some Kratom or codeine.
     
  7. Lordofterror

    Lordofterror Newbie

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    Would Kratom Have Any Effect On SWIM?

    I have used opiates for over 3 years (vicodin, perocet, poppy pod tea, opium, heroin) in that order and was wondering with SWIM's expirence and tolerance to opiates if Kratom would provide SWIM with any worthwhile effects? I am going to do some more research on his own into this issue but anyone who could shed some light onto this subject would really be helping SWIM out :)
     
  8. semaj

    semaj Silver Member

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    Re: Would Kratom Have Any Effect On SWIM?

    it really depends on swiy's current opiate habit. If your shooting H and then drinking some kratom no your probably not going to get much out of it. The longer you have been off the strong opiates the more easily the kratom will take effect.

    You shouldnt expect to get the same feeling from kratom as other opiates either. Though much of the euphoria and relaxation is the same, theres also the uplifting, stimulating side.

    Also much of how kratom will effect depends on the strain and the strength of the batch.
     
  9. VClacker

    VClacker Silver Member

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    Re: Would Kratom Have Any Effect On SWIM?

    Hiya Lord, I read this in another thread of yours:

    I think currently, with the amount of tolerance SWILord has, kratom is going to be pretty much useless. But while my cat has never done heroin and thinks comparing the two is probably a joke, kratom could be useful to SWILord in the long run. That is, I mean, with an interest in giving up heroin.
     
  10. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

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    Re: Would Kratom Have Any Effect On SWIM?

    To find out for sure buy some UEI (Ultra Enhanced Indo) and take a gram. SWIM, as he said in his first post, has a tolerance to codiene, but you can read his experience report in the relevant thread from when he first took a gram of UEI. my conclusion is that a high tolerance to Opiates does not necessarily render Kratom usless. To add weight to this belief, I know of Heroin addicts who use Kratom too, and they sure as hell wouldnt be wasting any money on Kratom if it didnt do anything.
     
  11. Lordofterror

    Lordofterror Newbie

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    Thank you guys for your input! :)

    I found this list online and was wondering if it was accurate and if so, how common are the following symptoms?

    Simultaneous stimulation & sedation
    Feelings of empathy
    Feelings of euphoria
    Aphrodisiac qualities for some people
    Vivid waking dreams
    Useful with physical labor Relatively short duration
    Change in ability to focus eyes
    Analgesia
    Very bitter taste
    Dizziness, nausea and/or vomiting at higher doses
    Mild depression during and/or after
    Increase in (perceived?) body temperature. (feel hot and sweaty)
    Hangover similar to alcohol
     
  12. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

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    My singing banana will comment from personal experience:

    Simultaneous stimulation & sedation - Yes, but it depends on which strain is being taken
    Feelings of empathy - Yes
    Feelings of euphoria - Yes
    Aphrodisiac qualities for some people - For my banana it has the opposite effect
    Vivid waking dreams - Not for the banana, but apparently quite common
    Useful with physical labor Relatively short duration - My banana imagines that a stimulating strain will have this effect
    Change in ability to focus eyes - Yes, it has a short term negative effect on ones eyesight
    Analgesia - Yes
    Very bitter taste - Yes
    Dizziness, nausea and/or vomiting at higher doses - My banana has never taken a stupidly high dose, but he has felt nausia on occasion, like any opiod/opiate-like subtance
    Mild depression during and/or after - Not really, but too much or certain strains do give my banana the jitters.
    Increase in (perceived?) body temperature. (feel hot and sweaty) - Yes
    Hangover similar to alcohol - Not for my banana

    Hope this helps


    To the person who just gave me negative rep on my first post please note

    1) I did use the search engine as i stated in my post
    2) I did comment that i had made a similar post a while ago, apologised and requested it be deleted

    SWIM suggests you read the whole thread before dishing out rep
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010