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Experiences - TEN SURE-FIRE WAYS to make POPPY TEA MORE POTENT!

Discussion in 'Opium & Poppy' started by Lippmannk1, Dec 24, 2008.

  1. Lippmannk1

    Lippmannk1

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    SWIM has been to the 4 corners of the internet, professor, doctor, beyond, and SWIM's own stumbling discoveries to finally post ways to increase the average poppy tea batch. All of these will (most likely) work, and some of these can even change the effect of poppy tea. These tips are intended to boost the strength and potency of strained liquid poppy tea ONLY. SWIM would strongly advise not trying this with any other form of opium or opiatic compound of ANY KIND!!!

    BE FOREWARNED!!! Doing all or even one of these simple techniques can litterally multiply the effect of poppy tea. If one is not extremely careful one can Overdose and die a horrid death. When used in moderation it can be a wonderful thing that can save you money and time. When used improperly you can lose everything!

    Tip # 1:

    Add Lemon Juice and/or Lime. Lime seems to make it taste better. Add about one healthy squirt per cup of tea. The acid in lemon juice/lime in high quantities and with other acids potentiates the opiatic compounds in poppy tea. Also helps in extracting opiatic compounds from the "mash" before straining, as with the other acids listed below.

    Tip # 2:

    Add Vitamin C tablets. Add 100mg tablet per cup of tea. Vitamin C IS, infact, an acid. With other acids or alone, it is found to potentiate the opatic compound in tea and speeds delivery to the body.

    Tip # 3:

    Add vinegar. The acid in vinegar, as with the other acids, can help with the extraction of the alkaloids in poppy pod tea as well as possibly "boost" the alkaloids in PPT to a more potent form of alkaloid. SWIM preferrs not to do this particular tip because it makes the tea taste downright AWFUL. I would use this tip only if you don't have any acidic compounds readily available. Update: It was afore mentioned in this post and edited out that adding vinegar could turn the PPT into a crude heroin, and this apparently is false.

    Tip # 4:

    Drink your tea with GRAPEFRUIT JUICE. SWIM does not know why, but it prevents the effect of the tea from wearing off as soon and even makes it stronger. SWIM, having extensive knowledge of medicine and still learning in medical school, thinks that it has something to do with slowing your liver down, thus preventing alkaloids in opium from being taken out of your blood stream as easily. SWIM does not remember the name of the compound that produces this effect in GRAPEFRUIT JUICE. (NEW RESEARCH): A few weeks after posting this, SWIM found that many people believe it is best to drink the Grapefruit Juice an hour before AND during the consumption of PPT. This gives the GFJ a chance to start slowing down your bodys ability to process the alkaloids in PPT beforehand and during consumption.

    Tip # 5:

    Have a small ammt of something high in fat content before you consume the tea. Do this 30 minutes before consumption of tea. Have small ammts of HEALTHY food (Fruits and veggies) throught the day at regular intervals. This "gets your stomach going", boosting your metabolism. This will make the tea get absorbed faster because the alkaloids are soluble in fat, and your body will be processing quicker and will absorb the alkaloids into the bloodstream far sooner than otherwise.

    Tip # 6:

    Drink, or even ADD an energy drink to your tea. The caffeine and other additives will boost the euphoric effect, speed up your metabolism even more, and generally make one higher. Caffeine its-self is a very bitter tasting compound and energy drinks add large ammts of sugar to cover this up. It conceals the taste of the tea equally as effectively.

    Tip # 7:

    Add 1/3 part alchohol per part poppy tea. BE VERY VERY VERY VEEEEEEEERY careful here. The effect of alchohol synergizes with opium and VICE VERSA. This is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. Do so at your OWN RISK!!! SWIM has never done this. SWIM has never consumed alchohol before, but heard this from elsewhere.

    Tip # 8:

    THIS IS ALSO EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, Perhapse even MORE so than adding alchohol. If one does this one is playing with FIRE! SWIM has done this before, and knows firsthand the nodding effect it can have: Take a Benzodiasepine such as valium, xanax, librium, etc. SWIM found that doing this CAN SOMETIMES, BUT NOT ALWAYS multiply the effect of poppy tea 2-3 times or more. SWIM was lucky that he was consuming a small ammt. of tea the first time he ACCIDENTALLY did this. The small ammt of tea turned out to be the greatest high SWIM has ever had. This is the most potent means SWIM knows of to potentiate poppy tea.

    Tip # 9:

    Exercise an hour before drinking the tea. Like tip # 5 above, it gets your metabolism going. Your body will most likely be in need of fluids and will absorb the water in the tea abnormally fast taking the opium along with it. This will produce a WHAM effect. It will hit you all at once and hard. The downside is that your body might analyze the tea in your stomach and throw it back up after exercising. SWIM knows through medical school that this is similar to trying to gulp down a gallon of milk in one massive chug. It is almost impossible due to the other compounds in milk mixed with the water. Your stomach analyzes the tea/milk, finds the alkaloids and other compounds, and doesn't want all of it at once. Drink in rapid sips to avoid throwing up.

    Tip # 10:

    (Suggested below, but put here for your convenience): Benadryl is known to compound the effects of poppy tea and other opioids. As with benzodiazepines and alchohol, this is known to slow your breathing and cause further respiratory depression. However it is much safer than mixing with alchohol or anything from the benzodiazepine family. Again, even though this is not considered as dangerous as either of those two you are still dancing with the devil. Do so at your own risk.

    Tip # 11:

    (Just sprung to mind): Through SWIM's experiences and reviewing documentation of opium dens in China, he has found something that to him atleast seems to REALLY make one higher. In the long-gone opium dens of China, the propriotor of the den would have all his customers lie down on a SLIGHT INCLINE and CLOSE THEIR EYES. SWIM knows this sounds absurd but it really seems to intensify the effect anywhere from an estimated 25%-50%. After lying about for 15 minutes or so, stand up and walk around. Again it will hit you hard and fast. Swim has two theories on why this is so: The first is that when you lie down and close your eyes one focuses much more on the good feeling. The second might have to do with the changes in blood pressure to and from the brain. Could the pressure force more morphine past the BBB? (There is an explanation on the BBB, otherwise known as the Blood Brain Barrier in a post below)

    Tip # 12: Fill in the blank! Post below of things that potentiate poppy tea that SWIM does not know about and he will make sure to add it to the list. SWIM took great care and time into writing this, and is curious to know what other methods are out there to make poppy tea better. SWIM did this for you, now return the favor! :thumbsup:

    (Tips 10 and 11 added at a later date than the rest of this essay. Credit for tip # 10 goes to Someone-Who-Isn't Cra$h)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2011
  2. Herbal Healer 019

    Herbal Healer 019 Silver Member

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    Pretty good thread here.

    SWIM read that adding vinegar creates a toxic codeine compound because of the acid in the vinegar (donno which type of acid).

    & adding grapefruit juice isn't a good idea in terms of potentiation but is for duration because GFJ is a CYP3A4 enzyme inhibiter, the one responsible for metabolizing codeine into morphine, thus much of the codeine will be rendered inactive. SWIM does find GFJ w/ poppy pod tea does seem to intensify it a bit(could b placebo) in addition to increasing nausea; possibly potentiation of morphine?

    Another potentiator here is cannabis which seems to potentiate any opiate.
     
  3. jaffacake

    jaffacake Silver Member

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    Adding things like lemon juice does seem to make it a lot more nauseating tho.
     
  4. Lippmannk1

    Lippmannk1

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    Thanks for the comment on SWIM's post. I spent a lot of time and energy working on it. 8). SWIM has studied the conversion methods and chemical changes caused by vinegar interacting with codeine. It shouldn't be toxic to my knowledge. Infact, it potentiates the codeine.

    Lippmannk1 added 20 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

    Morphine touches on several areas of the brain. It changes the respiratory system and nausea inducing areas the most. This, I would think, is the reason that Lemon Juice makes the tea more nauseating. Because the lemon juice succeeded in bringing more morphine to the pleasure receptors in your brainm you have the effect of nausea from the increase in bioavailable morphine (Morphine your body can use). This is no reason for alarm. Your body will very quickly get over this undesired side effect and build immunity to it. SWIM suggests getting an antinausea medicine to avoid this most unpleasent side effect.

    Cannabis makes you more aware to senses. It also does this with drugs such as opium and morphine (which is contained in opium). It does not potentiate the opium in the sense that it brings more to your brain or changes it to bind to pleasure receptors more readily, you just notice the pleasurable effects more than you would without the cannabis.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2011
  5. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Swim is curious about the fact that many of swiy's tips involve acidifying the tea. Acidic drugs are absorbed more quickly in the stomach, while non-polar drugs are absorbed more quickly and efficiently in the small intestine. As most opiates are of the non-polar variety, how does acidifying the tea affect the absorption? And where does the absorption now occur?

    Additionally, swim understands that heroin is diacetylmorphine, or morphine with two acetyl groups attached. Swim hasn't studied GI absorption of heroin. Can swiy provide some illumination on this? Additionally, swim was under the assumption that heat was helpful in facilitating the acetyl attachment. Swim assumes hot tea would work. As Swim has only known of using acetic anhydride, is it really feasible to use such a dilute form of acetic acid? Does it _really_ have any effect? Or honestly is it neglible?

    Can swiy provide some sources on the process (any conversion) and the absorption? Any and all sources would be much appreciated. Thanks.


    EDIT: Swim would also like to add that since the opiates are being ingested any prodrug (such as codeine) would effectively be converted to the more active form before reaching the target tissue due to first-pass metabolism. Particularly for non-naive users due to the metabolic induction.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2008
  6. Lippmannk1

    Lippmannk1

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    We are entering realms that even SWIM, someone who has studied medicine, does not know about. SWIM will research, ask his professors/doctors and see what SWIM can find out. No promises though. :s.

    SWIM has personally tested these out on himself, including the vinegar tip, and it does have a noticeable effect. All of these tips with the exception of alchohol, (which SWIM has never tried), SWIM has done on himself. SWIM confirmed with a reasonable ammt of certainty that they do infact boost the potency, rapidity of absorption, and/or ammt. your body can actually use in your system.

    SWIM learned (and it is SWIM's understanding, if correct) that your stomach does not have a large capacity to absorb much of anything. Your intestines do most of that work. Your stomach can analyze what is actually in it, but rarely absorbs anything at all. Through my studies of the stomach I found that there just isn't the "plumbing" lining the stomach walls to extract anything, aside from the odd bloodvessel keeping the lining alive. I believe that your comment on acidic absorption in the stomach is false with regards to OPIATES. It is also my understanding that the acid makes the alkaloids MORE READILY DISSOLVE INTO WATER. Your body takes the water with the alkaolids along for the ride, where they enter your bloodstream instead of going right through your body and doing nothing. This, SWIM believes, is why acids potentiate opiatic compounds.

    SWIM created this thread not for debate on how they work, but to start a thread for fellow SWIM's (;)) to share their own experiences and tips that could possibly boost the potency. If you can, please limit this thread's responses to just that. Thanks! :)

    Lippmannk1 added 3 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

    Jesus came to me in a dream and told me to give this link to the person above.




    *snickers* Whatcha gona do about my beliefs? Take THAT FDA!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2011
  7. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    The chemical in grapefruit juice is paradisin C, a potent CYP3A4 inhibitor.
    It will increase bioavailability of several opiates. Swiy is correct in that it may slow the conversion of codeine into morphine, but it will also slow the clearance of the drug and other opiates found in the tea.

    Swim has noticed mixed and uncertain results when inducing metabolism for prodrug activation, however swim has consistently noticed good results when inhibiting such metabolism even with prodrugs.


    EDIT:
    If one wants to experiment with this, a CYP3A4 inducer can be found in honey.
    http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74277

    Using grapefruit juice as an inhibitor and honey as an inducer for codeine, some good information might be able to be discerned. Swim would love to hear the results of such an experiment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2008
  8. pistol pete

    pistol pete Silver Member

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    are you intending to do every step of this? they are all great tips and this is a good thread. using lemon juice to acidify the water before making the tea is a good idea since it will help the alkatoids absorb in the solution. i dont beilve it will actually do anything with absorbtion in your body though. but adding vinger and vitiman C your just making it more acidic, and too acidic isnt always good. the grape fruit juice is used in poetenating many drugs, (mostly psyecedellics) because its high in vitiman C , so your overkilling with the vitiman C. The vitiman C helps to stop your body's enzym's from breaking down the alkatoids so it will potenate but overkill will make you pretty queezy.
    great thread dude swim will take this into acount.
     
  9. cra$h

    cra$h Silver Member

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    really good thread man. But suggestion #10 should be along the same line as the benzo's and barbs. Add a little benadryl into the mix. Common potenator of opiates, and much less risk of death.

    And acidid stomach+codeines don't mix. At all. but for opium, morphine, etc, there's some potenation.
     
  10. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Just to clarify, it isn't vitamin C in grapefruit juice that inhibits drug metabolism. Grapefruit juice has several chemicals known as furanocoumarins which are known to be potent cytochrome P450 inhibitors. They are paradisin A, paradisin B, paradisin C, bergamottin, and dihydroxybergamottin.

    Earl Grey tea has oil of bergamot, which contains bergamottin and dihydroxybergamottin. So Earl Grey tea might have similar effect as grapefruit juice. Could be used as an alternative.

    EDIT:
    Just to specify, they inhibit the CYP3A4 isozyme.
     
  11. Lippmannk1

    Lippmannk1

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    To clarify the acid question, acids bind to the morphine in opium and makes it easier to cross something known as the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB in short). Behind the BBB are the receptors that morphine binds with to cause that feel good pain numbing feeling. The acid in Vinegar does this to morphine (but only to an extent in opium) turning it into heroin. Heroin can cross the BBB so much easier that the potency is increased up to 4 times when compared with Morphine. Lemon juice, lime, and vinegar all contain different acids, and vitamin C is not the target but a bonus. When combining opium with the acids it is in the hopes that a few of the acids will bind to the morphine and make it more easily transportable across the BBB and thus one gets more *bang for your buck*.

    SWIM has added in the benadryl tip. SWIM already knew about it but SWIM forgot to include that in the writing of SWIM's essay here. Thanks for the reminder. SWIM is still compiling any and all tips if any has some to post. SWIM has written up everything to the bounds of his knowledge so far.

    Lippmannk1 added 116 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

    Is there a way that this can be "Moved up?" I feel like all SWIM's hard work isn't meeting enough eyes. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2011
  12. Routemaster Flash

    Routemaster Flash Palladium Member

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    SWIM would just like to point out that apparently (from other FAQs on this forum) you only need to reach a pH of 6.5 or so - i.e. just a bit more acidic than neutral - to optimise extraction of morphine from pods when making tea. He can only guess that this may be close to the optimum pH for your stomach or small intestine to absorb the stuff, too. (Bear in mind stomach secretions are generally pretty acidic anyway.) You can achieve this, as the OP says, with just a *squirt* of lemon juice in your poppy pod infusion - SWIM used to use the juice of several whole lemons but he now sees that the main effect of this was to make the resultant concotion far harder to drink (and keep down!) than it needed to be.

    This has been a public palatability announcement... :)
     
  13. allisterfan12

    allisterfan12 Newbie

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    swim is curious if lemon juice and vinegar produce good affects together with tea?
     
  14. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Newbie

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    Vinegar is not the acid used to produce heroin.

    Acetic Andrahyde is used when making Heroin. Acetic acid (The acid in vinegar) alone will not acetylate both positions 3 and 6 of morphine molecule to produce Heroin. (Heroin being 3,6DAM - or - molecular positions 3 and 6 DUAL acetylated Morphine)

    Acetic acid WILL acetylate position 6 of the morphine molecule but not position 3, and it will NOT do this on its own. It needs a catalyst to bond to the position. Once upon a time SWIM was challenged to find this catalyst (and believes that the challenger still owes him $100 as promised.)

    SWIM did indeed find this catalyst and successfully made 6MAM.

    Unfortunately SWIM had also unknowingly made 6MAC which is EXTREMELY toxic to humans and had a rather interesting ambulance ride. SWIM is fairly lucky to actually still be alive.

    A catalyst is an outside influence needed to make the bond or result. An example of a catalyst would be heat . . heat is often needed to produce a needed chemical shift so that something can bond in the right place. Heat however, is NOT the catalyst for 6MAM.

    When SWIMs research is complete the catalyst for 6MAM will be divulged. SWIM thinks that it is to dangerous to mention right now in case some experimental scientists make the mistake of trying this hypothetical situation and ending up either in an ambulance or dead from 6MAC poisoning.

    Since the next alkaloid is a known allergen and has been responsible for extreme allergic reactions, one would hate to see what happens to narcotine when it is acetylated.

    In short . . all that vinegar actually does for poppy tea (other than make it taste very bad) is to lower the pH of the liquid thereby making the opiate alkaloids more soluble to the solution itself.

    Hope this has been of help. :) Peace.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2009
  15. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    ^ What is 6MAC? Couldn't find this anywhere.

    Swim is not familiar with narcotine being as dangerous a drug as swiy suggests.
     
  16. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Newbie

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    6MAC is - Molecular position 6, mono-acetylated Codeine.

    6MAC is extremely toxic to humans and IS NOT a mass produced drug because of this (i.e: it has no medical value).

    Narcotine is an opiate alkaloid of opium and not considered a drug because it has no medical value. It is the chief allergen in opium. If one was going to have an allergic reaction to any opiate contained in opium then Narcotine would be it first.

    Even when people are not allergic to it, it produces some nasty effects in a fair number of people. These include a heart burn like symptom, mild to severe stomach aches, vomiting, extreme diarrhea, even anaphylaxis and many others.

    If the molecule was successfully acetylated . . .
    (one does not know of this EVER happening, it is pure theory)
    . . . Then it would be much more readily absorbed into the system and much more bioavailable. . . . in theory.

    About 20% of the people SWIM knows who have actually tried opium overseas have had some kind of allergic reaction to Narcotine. However, the more opiate tolerant a person is, the less likely they are to have such an allergic reaction.

    This cannot be said about 6MAC however, it is known to produce an allergic reaction even in opiate tolerant persons, sometimes even severe leading to death. It has been found at times in badly processed Mexican tar Heroin and other heroins which have come from poorly processed locations.

    One has found links about it before and posted them in other areas, If one can find them again one shall post them accordingly.

    Hope this has been of help.
     
  17. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Thanks for explaining the 6MAC. The statement above that narcotine has no medical value is completely false. Narcotine (also known as noscapine) does not have pain-killing properties, but it is an effective antitussive and is used as such. Additionally, narcotine is being investigated as a chemotherapuetic agent for cancer. Narcotine is also being investigated for use in several other treatments, such as ischemia and stroke.

    See noscapine.org for some additional info.
     
  18. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Newbie

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    Indeed this is correct.

    It is used in rather SMALL dosages (comparatively to what would be taken when using opium) as a cough suppressant. Higher dosages (as is stated in a fair number of other sources) can produce some interesting problems.

    For stroke, cancer, etc etc . . it is still in very early experimental or theoretical stages.

    Peace :)
     
  19. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Newbie

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    Very on topic actually. If one wanted to improve the potency of PPT or opium then one would need to know about the alkaloids which are present and causing the highs and also what would accelerate them in the system. WIKI has a great page on "Opiate" which is worthy of a good read if one wanted to know such things.

    Peace :)
     
  20. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Newbie

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    It all comes down to the attitude of the person.

    As One has mentioned SWIM is a little older than people may expect. SWIM has been doing opium and opiates for years and years. SWIM owns 2 houses, 3 cars, a collection of classic motorcycles and a fair number of other toys for big kids.

    In no way has SWIM ever compromised his life for opium/opiates. SWIM makes a regular habit out of "detoxifying", usually around twice a year.

    SWIM knows that people DO compromise their lives for opiates, they also do this for other drugs. Even alcohol. SWIM thinks that with a mature attitude, common sense and a good will that opiates can be just like drinking alcohol. This is to say, If one were to drink responsibly then one is safe. However, If one were to abuse it then the same result comes from anything. One has to just look at the absolutely ridiculous amount of people who die every year from smoking. The statistic is shocking.

    SWIM hopes that people see this information for what it is and it helps :)
    Peace :)