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Opinions - The horror stories associated with synthetic cannabinoids

Discussion in 'Cannabinoids' started by NGC1300, Mar 16, 2012.

  1. NGC1300

    NGC1300 Silver Member

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    In recent times, it seems no other drug(s) has generated so much negativity as synthetic cannabinoids. Do some casual research on people's opinions, and it seems these drugs are up there with heroin and methamphetamine in terms of danger and social acceptance.

    Most often reported are claims of:
    Hospitalizations
    Seizures
    Strokes
    Heart attacks
    Death

    These are certainly some very serious conditions, but just how much evidence is there to back up these claims?

    Hospitalizations is easy to explain. As is well known, these drugs can promote intense anxiety, especially at higher doses. It wasn't until my use of synthetic cannabinoids that I experienced what a panic attack really was. It is easy to see how someone in that situation might end up in the ER, thinking they are dying.

    These drugs actually inducing a seizure? I have no idea, but I do think people can confuse convulsions with seizures.

    Strokes, heart attacks and death are even less clear. We hear so many horror stories, but never see scientific evidence that these drugs have actually causes these events.

    The ill effects I have noticed from my cannabinoid use are pretty much the same as with marijuana; drowsiness and a "low" feeling after the high is gone.

    Unique to the synthetic cannabinoids would be more extreme anxiety and the potential for panic attacks. I also have pretty bad eye floaters that seemed to appear after use of these drugs. I can't say they were caused by the drugs, but I think they can be linked to the anxiety attacks associated with them.

    So, I guess more than anything I'm asking for your opinions on just how dangerous synthetic cannabinoids actually are. The claims of seizures and strokes appear entirely anecdotal; does anyone have any scientific information proving cause and effect?

    Regarding these drugs, I hear a lot of anecdotal horror stories that seem to be generated by inexperienced users and people who apply stigmas to drug use in any form.

    What is your opinion on the health effects of these drugs?
     
  2. syntheticdave

    syntheticdave Newbie

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    I feel that the health effects are still very unknown about synthetic cannabinoids and that we really wont know until its possibly to late they call them research chemicals for a reason and we are the guinea pigs.

    However i am an avid user of synthetic cannabinoids and enjoy my time of researching and learning about them.

    You hit the nail right on the head with hospitalizations they are usually from inexperienced users who have a panic attack and believe that they are dying. I myself have had 100s of uncomfortable incidents with synthetic cannabinoids and a good percent of those times i considered calling 911 i never did call tho i would just talk myself down and ride out of the trip. Now i never usually have panic attacks and on the rare insistence that i do iv learned to enjoy it and ride the waves of anxiety that wash over.

    As for the seizures i feel that people confuse seizures with convulsions. A seizure is the reaction of increased electrical activity within the brain. Cannabinoids also have been known to relieve and prevent seizures in people with epilepsy so i would find it hard to believe people have actual full blow seizures i have noticed while high on synthetics different parts of my body twitch or feel like there twitching this could possibly escalate into convulsions if enough synthetic cannabinoids are consumed.

    Strokes/heart attacks is probably the toughest one to explain. since first starting synthetic cannabinoids i have noticed the area of my chest where my heart is hurts from time to time not sure if its my heart or not. Several people have died from heart attacks also there arent alot of cases of it and could possibly be an underlying/undiagnosed heart related ailment that reacted with the synthetic cannabinoids in a fatal way.

    And finally death there have been several reporting's of death related to synthetic cannabinoids and apart from the stroke/heart attack related deaths i could find 4 other deaths related to synthetic cannabinoids.

    1. 14 year old boy who smoke synthetic cannabis out of a plastic pez dispenser got such bad chemical burns on his lungs that he needed a double lung transplant and then died several weeks after.

    2. Male age 19 Smoked synthetic cannabis got into his car started driving started freaking out and then slammed his car into a house

    3/4. were both gun related involving males one male apparently started freaking out and got extremely depressed/paranoid and shot and killed himself with a shot gun apparently he had talked about suicide before the incident so he may have possibly had something else underlying. The other male smoke synthetic cannabis and decided to play Russian roulette jokingly with a revolver and ended up shooting himself in the face and died.

    As you can see from the 4 instances i listed while synthetic cannabis was involved in the death it is not directly the cause of death but simply the choices that they made after that resulted in death.

    Hope this information helped answer some of your questions.

    SyntheticDave
     
  3. MJD7

    MJD7 Newbie

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    There's no doubt that a lot of cannibinoids can mess you up but there's a difference between a panic attack in someone's head and an actual physical attack the drug can have on your body. SWIM has had both at the same time and it's a terrifying and humbling experience. SWIM had ego death and convulsions at the same time that will leave a mental scar on his life forever. There are a lot of benefits of ego death especially after a traumatizing one. One will see his or her life completely different and cling to values that improve your character and benefit your mental well being. After ego death, even in sobreity you'll be a lot more of a relaxed and chill of a person. If you want me to explain SWIMs experiences I can go into further detail if you want.

    But anyways, there's a mental attack and/or a physical attack if you have any negative effects on cannibinoids. Mental attacks are usually from a lack of experience to trips/drugs in general (hallucinations, disassociation, anxiety, etc.) and physical attacks are usually as far as I know just a reaction from a chemical in the cannibinoid that you're body doesn't know how to deal with or is allergic to (increased heart rate, convulsions, seizures, death, etc.).

    If one experiences either attack on his or her body, just remind yourself that what you're feeling is just the influence of a drug on your body and that you're just having a good time. Even if your experiencing symptoms that you know are starting to feel damaging physically trick yourself through the placebo effect that you're fine and that you're just under the influence of a cannibinoid, it helps a lot more than just panicking about it which will make it much worse. One might not be able to just simply do that, but after experience (of even any other drugs just in general), one will know how to react if the situation arises. Also make sure to just bring plenty of water.

    Just a basic piece of advice: If you don't think you're ready then don't do it. If you're worried about the psychological effects and/or you're always thinking about the negative effects of the drug that will in effect make an unpleasureable high, hang out with friends that you can be relaxed around and it will be much more of an enjoyable time, even if you don't worry about those things too much. Build up your tolerance to all drugs in general and learn how your body reacts and what you'd need to do if anything serious happens. It has the potential of being a lot more hardcore of a drug than weed, its comparison, and once people take that for granted and toke up a storm and start panicking they don't know what to do because they've only experienced weed highs. Just because it's legal doesn't mean anything. But please for the love of god don't undervalue your life over getting caught or going to the hospital, that's the golden rule.
     
  4. Joe-(5-HTP)

    Joe-(5-HTP) Palladium Member Donating Member

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    I think that because of the insane potency overdose is easy and that it's not particularly different to a huge cannabis overdose- it's just that it's not so easy to take that much cannabis

    siezures can happen on psychedelic bad trips so i don't see why it's surprising that the same would happen on an extreme cannabinoid dose

    So I don't view these as clear evidence against the potential health risks against cannabinoids, aside from those caused by panic attacks
     
  5. Overwatch9

    Overwatch9 Silver Member

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    The encompasing and most accurate answer to your question, like "SyntheticDave" eluded to, is to proclaim we simply don't know the overall health impact use of these compounds have a body. There are so many variations in use, compounds, routes of admin, body chemistry and most importantly -- amount consumed.

    As I've previously mentioned, I have no doubt many people have done serious damage to their neurological system through use of synthetic cannabinoids. And many, many others have used these compounds for over two years, often responsibly, with zero apparent health effects. Many of these negatively impacted individuals have abused these compounds through massive dose intakes and chronic use over extended periods of time. And one must remind themselves, that abuse of any compound, drug or even food, will have some type of effect on the body. The stereotypical pot-head isn't fat because of THC -- it's the sedative response from the body coupled with the tendency for massive food intake.

    I believe it is human nature to seek justification or to pinpoint a source for any type of heath related aliment. It seems if someone is using synthetic cannabinoids, any random or likely naturally occuring health issue is quickly linked and blamed on the RC compound. A friend who eats fast food two times a day, drinks Mt Dew non-stop, Wife divorced him and sleeps on average 4 hours per day, just blamed his anxiety and high cholesterol on his cannabinoid use from two months ago. I see that mindset in many of these negative reports.

    I'm, in no fashion, trying to downplay the dangers of these compounds. They can be dangerous, their legacy effects unknown, and they are truly a research compound. But I'd urge anyone to look beyond the compound when viewing these reports. Look at the consumption amounts, length of use, ROA and for hints of preexisting conditions or external contributors.
     
  6. MJD7

    MJD7 Newbie

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    I disagree... Deaths from direct physical effects on the body from cannibinoids have occured. Nobody has ever died from a cannibis overdose. And I beleive the overdoses to be completely different.
     
  7. Joe-(5-HTP)

    Joe-(5-HTP) Palladium Member Donating Member

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    okay, but i think we're both right- i wasn't explictly saying that the overdoses aren't dangerous just that often the problems are psychological but confused for physical
     
  8. MJD7

    MJD7 Newbie

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    I just don't think that there really is an overdose from weed, aside from falling asleep. And if someone can't handle so much weed, they usually just lose the physical ability or effort to smoke anymore, haha. But I've never known weed to cause panic attacks, quite the opposite.
     
  9. Ellisdeee

    Ellisdeee Titanium Member

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    Weed can definitely cause panic attacks in people. It's of course less common and the intensity of a marijuana induced panic attack probably isn't as extreme as a synthetic cannabinoid induced panic attack.

    As someone who started experiencing hard panic attacks from the usage and even occasionally outside of usage of cannabinoids, typically a panic attack begins in the mental and manifests itself physically the more intense the level of panic becomes. I read what you wrote about mental and physical attacks but, the real medical definition of a panic attack I'm quite sure is the body re-acting in the "fight or flight" response, which is a strong physical trigger. That is easily triggered by the wrong mental state though. A panic attack without the physical symptoms is just called 'extreme worrying', if you ask me.

    I'd also be curious, I have heard it tossed around "people have died from effects of cannabinoids" or "died from overdosing" on them. But, not to knock you in this case, but like every post I've heard say it, there is no link to evidence. Names, obituaries, causes of death, media attention etc. I still think using them is bad news but, I am not fully sold that someone has died from cannabinoids before or as a result of their acute effects alone. Like the other post listed, a lot of the associated deaths are from external causes.

    I don't think it couldn't happen. But I really would like to see something conclusive that they have killed a person by no obscure means.
     
  10. MJD7

    MJD7 Newbie

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    I'm not sure I'd be able to find any source of information in regards to direct cause of death, but have read online and heard stories from doctors about death from use, but that can mean two different things. Of course you have to factor things such as mixture of drugs, tolerance (probably?), allergic reactions and sanity of mind.
     
  11. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Have a read through the cannabis forum, there are plenty of reports of it causing panic attacks.
    It does not take much for me to become anxious, and it has often lead to panic attacks.
     
  12. Sgmfrd

    Sgmfrd Silver Member

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    Is is really possible die due to physical symptoms of synthetic cannabinoids?
    I really doubt that for some reason..
     
  13. Mortivore

    Mortivore Silver Member

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    Someone left this note on the windshield of my car...

    Having experienced "OD"s on both cannabis and Research cannabinoids I feel I am as acquainted as one could be with the panicky rush of taking it to far. Feeling everything in overwhelming waves, mass over examination of every part of my conscious psyche, and the crippling disassociation of becoming an observer rather than a participant.

    I claim no knowledge here other than experience and I'm closer to a ditch digger than a doctor. I've seen friends, acquaintances and even myself have panic attacks due to cannabis. I always knew no harm would be done and I'd be back to baseline in a matter of hours. Research cannabinoids do the same but harder, faster and with a fraction of the dose of weed. Any illusion of control is taken so swiftly and forcefully that it is oft times to much to handle. Letting go seems harder the faster we are being taken and I do not doubt that these intense psychological feelings can manifest themselves into physical disturbances. As stated before the placebo effect is powerful and I feel these compounds give the mind that much more power to create physical symptoms that may be wholly psychosomatic.

    That said, we are but canaries in the coal mine. Who is to say what these research chemicals will do to us in the long run? We are the pioneers who know only what we can remember and share with each other. We can only try to keep each other canary safe and well informed.
     
  14. henchman42

    henchman42 Newbie

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    This is such a touchy subject. I have done lots of research on "death" from synthetic cannabis. And to my surprize I have found no direct links with suffice medical evidence to convince me. However, from my experiences, Synthetic cannabinoids have caused increased heart rate, increased anxiety, increased agitation, SEVERE irritability. Every once in a while i will get minor chest pains, but I have had chest pains since before me experience with synthetic, so I find no direct link. I DO NOT support the use of synthetic cannabis NOR AM I SAYING IT IS SAFE. We simply do not know, we are the lab rats and we will feel the direct effects unless something is done. By no means am I condoning research chems by no means, there just needs to be moderation and laws and stricter tolerances.
     
  15. Exitlude

    Exitlude Titanium Member

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    3 major reasons that I believe contribute heavily...

    1. Media - if it bleeds, it leads
    2. Lack of knowledge by users
    3. People are more inclined to go online and report negatives and project their views upon others. People using happily are doing just that, not canvassing their views.
     
  16. firehouse

    firehouse Silver Member

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    I have done a lot of research on "research chemicals" and not one shred of evidence that synthetic cannabinoids have caused a single death directly. If you got really drunk and shot yourself, suddenly "Alcohol kills!" Give me a break. There may in fact be a lot of negative side effects from the use of RC's, but death from use is not one of them.
     
  17. henchman42

    henchman42 Newbie

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    I have seen TONS of media hype on the local news station regarding the use of "k2" 'thats what the local news station calls it, not knowing that k2 is actually banned in this state, Georgia' Some of the things they list are, "teen dies after using synthetic cannabis and drowns in hot tub", well that is kind of self explanitory. They failed to mention that alcohol was involved. Another incident was " 16 year old boy dies from smoking k2 out of a plastic pez dispenser" After that was listed it said, after an attempted double lung transplant for chemical burns in the lungs, the boy dies. Anyone can search that in your standard search engine. Okay, I have had direct experiences from people going to the hospital during the "panic attacks". Again, elevated heart beat, anxiety, nausea, BUT from my experience, that is all a sign of an overdose. Simply put, don't ABUSE any drug, especially after hearing all the negative media hype. If I am wrong, please feel free to correct me, as I am only human and not perfect. I am discontinuing my use of research chemicals soon, because of the unknown health effects. The health effects I MYSELF have experienced was during the "overdose". However after just over a year of research I am starting to develop memory loss, forgetting peoples names, forgetting where i was driving down the road, even forgetting what i went to the kitchen for. JUST MY EXPERIENCES.... I am no scientist and I am not trying to argue or support any bans on rc, just a concerned individual who feels that this might be problematic in the future....... Feel free to private message me,

    Henchman
     
  18. travilanche

    travilanche Silver Member

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    I think that the main danger that comes along with the abuse of these drugs, is malnutrition. My friend used them non stop all day, everyday for about 7 months, and after about a month, he couldn't hold down a real meal at all until about a month or so after he was completely clean. He never had problems with strokes or seizures or anything like that. However when he quit, his blood pressure hovered at stage 2 hypertension for about a month or so.

    His appetite didn't exist. Eating was a horrid chore. The movement of chewing alone was enough to make him vomit. I think that a person could eventually die of starvation from overusing these substances. At least the ones that he was using anyway. Synth cannabinoids are no joke.

    Despite these experiences, I still believe they can be used responsibly in moderation and not cause any problems. But their abuse potential is quite high.
     
  19. Sgmfrd

    Sgmfrd Silver Member

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    I bet if you use any drugs non stop for 7 months this kind of shit is expected to happen,no offense.
     
  20. banarabyjones

    banarabyjones Newbie

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    May need to check further but I do believe there are no cannabinoid receptors in the parts of the brain responsible for autonomic function. So there should be no fear in terms of say respiratory depression like most drugs that people die from cause. I of course am no scientist but OD experiences and even my own addiction seem to corroborate this. As well if someone died could be other factors as stated above or misidentification or another substance. It sure is not something I associate with good times anymore and very glad I stopped using them.