Drug info - Tianeptine cross-tolerance (Kratom, other opiates)

Discussion in 'Opiates & Opioids' started by Pseudovoyager, Sep 24, 2014.

  1. Pseudovoyager

    Pseudovoyager Silver Member

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    I am looking for experienced users of Tianeptine to answer a few questions that don't seem to have been covered anywhere else that I could find. I did a lot of searching so hopefully there is someone out there who might have been in a similar situation. I also posted this at another popular harm reduction forum to try and get a thorough answer from everyone out there.

    Recently, Tianeptine has been shown to not be an SSRE, as previously thought. From what I understand it exerts its effects mainly through AMPA and NMDA, and affects opioid receptors. This brings up some interesting questions about cross-tolerance. In my case, I'm a daily Kratom user, and have been for quite a long time. Kratom has been said to have some effects on Serotonin (although this may not be that important in regards to Tianeptine if it actually is *not* and SSRE), and we all know Kratom also affects opioid receptors.

    What, if any, do you guys think the dangers might be of combining Tianeptine and Kratom? Does anyone have any experience combining Tianeptine with any other opioid agonists (hydrocodone, heroin, morphine, etc.)? If so, did you find signifcant cross-tolerance or any reduction in effects from the Tianeptine? I'm most interested in anyone who has any info on using it while also being dependent on Kratom.

    Actually, to be more specific, I'm not really looking to *combine* Kratom and Tianeptine. I plan to take them at separate times, possibly using the Tianeptine to greatly reduce the frequency of my Kratom use. I'm just worried that having a base opioid tolerance is going to render Tianeptine pretty much useless.

    Who here has used Tianeptine while dependent on Kratom or other opiates/opioids? Any information is greatly appreciated! :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2014
  2. thirdeyelasik

    thirdeyelasik Silver Member

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    I have taken tianeptine with kratom on numerous occasions but I have only ever gone up to 50mg of the tianeptine and 4grams of kratom. It synergizes really well because the tianeptine creates a happy energized feeling much like tramadol(but different) and the red vein borneo kratom creates the melt into the couch feeling. I have never become dependent on the tianeptine but I take kratom everyday. When I took the tianeptine with 10mgs of hydrocodone the hydros out powered the tianeptine feeling and I noticed nothing enhanced at all.
     
  3. Bocgam

    Bocgam Newbie

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    For what it's worth, I have a moderate opiate tolerance (use six days per week), and I find that ~150 mg of tianeptine produces pleasant effects. However, I have never used it while on any (other) opiate.
     
  4. KannaKratom

    KannaKratom Newbie

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    Funny, I'm in the same situation and was wondering the same thing....I'm trying to quit my kratom addiction...but still take it on occasion.

    Your saying its not an ssre?? Were did u here this from?

    Thank for the great info guys

    Peace....
     
  5. marknoo

    marknoo Newbie

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    I am interested in the same thing. I buy a Kilo of Kratom a month to deal with my depression and anxiety. I got up to that Kilo pretty quick, maybe in 6 months, but in the last 4 years it has not increased. If anything it is decreasing but not significantly enough warrant further discussion. I don't use any extracts.

    Anyway, as you know, I am looking to find something better than Kratom. Better=cheaper and less legal gray area.

    Is Tianeptine a substitute to try. I don't want to supplement. I want to trade the Tianeptine for the Kratom.

    I'm an alcoholic too, I quit alcohol about 6 months before I tried Kratom. I don't know if that is important or not but it may tell you something about my physiology. Also, it is better for me to keep using Kratom than to go nutty (depression/anxiety) again, it is also better for me to keep using Kratom than to go back to drinking.

    I am just looking to take the next step towards normalcy. To me taking an AD that is prescribed in Europe is as close as I will ever probably get to normal. I am just looking to do it as legitimately as possible.

    I also take a prescription of bupropion (450 mg XL) so I am maxed out on that.

    I cannot take SSRIs, they make me either anxious or oblivious to the world (sometimes they just plain don't do anything too). Lots of bad side effects with no therapeutic benefit is not worth it.
     
  6. chupamivergaguey

    chupamivergaguey Silver Member

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    Compelling question here. Marknoo and KannaKratom -- I'm there with you. Thirdeyelasik, I''ll be testing your assertions.

    Only recently dug into the kratom after running out of a large quantity of tianeptine. After combining codeine and <100mg tianeptine, I had minimal results. Equal to either alone. 7-8g mix of Bali and Maeng Da with ~50mg tianpetine had far more kratom results than tianeptine. In short, I have no idea but will continue to follow this thread. Might even start experimenting with new crops of both tianeptine and bali.
     
  7. crunkazcanbe

    crunkazcanbe Newbie

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    I have been taking 180mg of tianeptine with anywhere from 10-15 grams of kratom at a time every night with no problems . It goes well with the kratom , and makes it feel the same as just taking 25 grams of kratom alone . I do this combo to save on kratom .
     
  8. malsat

    malsat Gold Member

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    Sweet buddha's chin fat, where are you buying your kratom? Don't answer that. Start buying it somewhere else. 25g is insane. It must be really poor quality.
     
  9. crunkazcanbe

    crunkazcanbe Newbie

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    You may think this is low quality kratom i have but its not . I have been around to 15 or so vendors before i found the vendor i am with now going on a year . I buy 1.5kilo a month. This kratom is good enough to give my wife a nod at 5 grams i have a huge tolerance to opiates 500+ mg aday of oxycodone . I take kratom and tianeptine to space out my usage of my 30mg roxies aka oxycodone i only get a 120 of a month. I also want to state that last night i was nodding hard with 250mg tianeptine and 15grams Bali red kratom. On par with about 120mg oxycodone .

    crunkazcanbe added 9 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...

    The most important thing to remember when taking kratom or tianeptine is to not mix it with a maoi .
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
  10. Jonathan James Jones

    Jonathan James Jones Newbie

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    Fabulous synergism.

    For me, tianeptine + kratom gives a very powerful effect that neither substance alone gives. A very strong opiate body buzz. Very strong. I just want to sit (or lay) there so still, with warm blood surging down my heavy arms.

    Oddly enough, I cannot fall alseep though. Maybe it's the tianeptine. But the feeling's so good I do not care. I usually take the taineptine (sulfate) first though, because the sulfate form takes a little while to be absorbed. We all know that kratom is more instant.

    Supposedly, tianeptine is primarily Mu and kratom primarily Delta - that's what I've heard - so I guess something about that combination adds up to the wonderful effect I describe.

    But along the harm reduction front, I do cut my kratom dose in half. Just in case. And it works like a charm. Also, the effect lasts a really long time.

    Jonathan James Jones added 5 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

    I want to add here that originally I intended using tianeptine sulfate alone, so I could quit kratom. However, tianeptine just doesn't cover it all. By itself, tianeptine is nothing like kratom. And it would cover all withdrawal symptoms except for the Restless Body part. And that's why I started combining. And that's how I discovered the fabulous effect.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
  11. MrE

    MrE Newbie

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  12. MrE

    MrE Newbie

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    Ive actually had quite a bit of experience with both. I mostly use tianeptine (sodium) these days and sulfate to manage the sodium withdrawals. I'm actually trying to ween myself off of it right now. Kratom I use sparingly. My older brother is actually more of a Kratom user. He goes through a 1/2 pound in a couple weeks. We both have tried combining tianeptine (sodium and sulfate) with Kratom. I agree wth what some of the others have said. They synergize very well. Amplifying the opiate type feel, however the withdrawals
    And negative side effects are atrocious and just not worth it in my opinion. I personally try to not use tianeptine sodium and Kratom in the same day. It's just far too intense. Also I prefer the effects of them both separately. I will say that the tianeptine sulfate is much more tolerable with Kratom. Sulfate is smoother and longer lasting. However even those two in combination can start to wear you down over time.
    Having tried almost every nootropic/legal high/herb/vitamin and amino acid I can say that My all time favorite combo is coca powder and tianeptine sodium. I've had immense success with both of those for about a year. Coca synergizes very well with tianeptine and keeps me from dosing tianeptine too often. Still I'm looking to actually completely drop all because I feel I've become to dependent on them.