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Experiences - Tianeptine (recreational use)

Discussion in 'Antidepressants' started by Horned Demon-Monkey, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. Horned Demon-Monkey

    Horned Demon-Monkey Silver Member

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    This isn't yet another thread about abusing SSRIs. So, please don't crucify me before reading this post. I don't suggest that anyone should abuse tianeptine or that it's completely safe (abusing is never safe): please take your medication as instructed. But if someone has experimented with it or knows someone who has, then it may be good to share those stories for harm-reduction.

    In this thread I would like to discuss its recreational use, not therapeutic. However, as the drug isn't so well-known, I think short introduction is necessary.


    Introduciton

    Tianeptine (Stablon, Coaxil) may very well be the only currently available (not in U.S.) antidepressant that has recreational value. It's categorised as Selective Serotonin Reuptake Enhancer (SSRE), which basically should be opposite of SSRI: taking serotonin out of synapses, not keeping it there. However, some studies suggest that it doesn't lower serotonin levels considerably and this isn't the main mechanism of its therapeutic effects. Additionally tianeptine affects dopamine, NMDA, AMPA and opioid receptors/concentrations. It's hypothesized that it also reverses impaired neuroplasticity.

    Tianeptine is usually well tolerated and doesn't have many side-effects. It doesn't cause sexual problems which is very frequent side-effect of SSRIs/SNRIs. Maybe even the opposite: enhance the experience and reverse loss of libido and delayed ejaculation caused by other anti-depressants. Most frequent side-effects of tianeptine are insomnia, dry mouth and constipation.

    Recreational use

    Please do not inject tianeptine! It's poorly soluble in water and thus it may cause necrosis if injected. There are recorded incidents of it. It's not worth loosing your limbs and/or dying.

    We have pretty good case report about abuse of tianeptine in our archives: Saatcioglu O, Erim R, Cakmak D (2006) Abuse Of Tianeptine: A Case Report. Turkish Journal of Psychiatry 2006 17 (1).

    I'm not going to retell the previously mentioned article, but rather add experiences of person that I met. Let's call him John.

    Dangers of overdose & alcohol

    There's a case report of intentional (suicide) fatal intoxication of Tianeptine (combined with alcohol):
    Proença P, Teixeira H, Pinheiro J, Monsanto PV, Vieira DN (2007) Fatal intoxication with tianeptine (Stablon). National Institute of Legal Medicine- Delegation of Coimbra, Largo da Sé Nova, Coimbra, Portugal.

    John has had quite bad hangovers with headaches when he has mixed tianeptine with alcohol (relatively small doses).

    Experiences

    John has used tianeptine for about a year and half (with some breaks). He had partial success with it regarding depression and anxiety, but it seems to build tolerance pretty fast. Even if used therapeutically and in suggested doses. Most of the time he took the medication more-or-less as instructed (3x12.5mg), but recently he started experimenting with larger doses. Mostly because the decreased therapeutic effect: probably caused by tolerance. In clinical trials tianeptine was tested on human with dosages up to 75mg per day and there have been cases of abuse with several times larger amounts without obvious harmful effects. Of course, it doesn't mean it's safe to exceed determined doses! John has recreationally taken up to 125mg as one dose and total of 500mg during 12 hours session. He has found that if tolerance is kept under control then 62.5-125mg is good amount for him. To regain the effects he has sometimes kept 2-4 weeks pause after using it for about 4-10 days. There has also been longer breaks (in months).


    John didn't feel much when he first experimented with larger doses. I don't know why. Maybe he was expecting too much or different experience. Maybe he was too depressed to notice the effects. Maybe the dose was too small: at the time he took it daily (therapeutically) and thus had some tolerance. However, when he experimented with it again about half a year later, it certainly had noticeable effects.

    John would compare the recreational effects of Tianeptine with opioids. It feels pretty similar to oxycodone, but weaker in general sense and builds tolerance faster. Most pronounced is the feeling of well-being and increased sociability/openness. It's not strong euphoria, but more subtle feeling. It also has mildly stimulating effect: psychological, not physical.
    The onset is within 20-60 minutes and the duration of main experience is 2-3 hours. However, more subtle effects may last a lot longer, especially with repeated dosing (unless tolerance kicks in). If a longer tolerance pause is kept (in months) and for example 125mg dose is taken 3 times with a few hours between re-dosing, then John has reached extremely blissful state (with body high) for something like 30 minutes.

    Short-term side-effects

    High doses seem to cause insomnia: a side-effect which is also reported at therapeutic doses.

    Combinations

    Combining drugs is always more risky than taking them separately! Information here is very subjective and extreme caution is advised!
    • Coffee - Seems to enhance stimulating properties of tianeptine. Especially if taken on empty stomach.
    • Alcohol - Probably cross-potentates effects a little bit, but may cause bad side-effects even in small doses (nausea, vomiting, headaches, hangover next day). May be fatal in high doses ("Dangers of overdose & alcohol" section)!
    • Cannabis - Synergistic. Seems to enhance mild psychedelic properties of cannabis.
    • Benzodiazepines and Opiates - Synergistic. Enhances the blissful state and sociability.
    • LSD - Inconclusive, but seems to potentate LSD, reduce the tolerance and prolong the trip.
    • MDMA (ecstasy) - Inconclusive, but seems to intensity the roll and reduce the tolerance. Certainly helps a lot, when taken during the hangover even in relatively small doses (37.5 - 62.5 mg). There are even theories (haven't found any scientific proof yet) about it reversing possible damage caused by MDMA's neurotoxicity.

    I think it's about all that John told me.
    So, does any of you have experiences with Tianeptine?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  2. overkillx7

    overkillx7 Newbie

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    Actually, taking higher doses, around 6 pills at 12.5mg each produced really strong euphoria and a great body high, for me anyway. It would feel alot like oxycodone but without the sleepiness and actually had a stimulating effect like you said. Only down side was it would only last around a few hours and sometimes gave me such a bad headache after.
     
  3. Horned Demon-Monkey

    Horned Demon-Monkey Silver Member

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    That's indeed a shame. I'm actually thinking whether there would be any way to prolong/amplify the effects. Like the inhibition of CYP3A4 enzymes increases bioavailability of certain drugs (among others some benzodiazepines, opiates and z-drugs). As far as I know tianeptine isn't metabolised by that enzyme though. There doesn't seem to be many studies regarding interactions of Tianeptine.
    So far I have been able to find only this one:

    Zini R, Morin D, Salvadori C, Tillement JP. The influence of various drugs on the binding of tianeptine to human plasma proteins. Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther Toxicol. 1991 Feb;29(2):64-6.
    Abstract:
    Natural sources of salicylic acid are unripe fruits and vegetables such as blackberries, tomatoes and some nuts such as almonds, peanuts.

    However, according to sources of wikipedia overdose of 'salicylic acid' is somewhat dangerous:
    Even though it is used as medicine (to reduce pain and fever), at least I lack the knowledge to determine safe, but high enough dosage to experiment with. However, eating some peanuts wouldn't kill anyone (unless allergic), although I doubt there's enough salicylic acid for desired effect.



    John doesn't remember having headaches after using tianeptine, unless sometimes if taken with alcohol. I think he hasn't taken large doses with alcohol, but certainly there have been incidents during therapeutic use. Sometimes moderate doses of alcohol caused pretty bad headaches next morning. However during drinking he felt only little bit more drunk than usually.

    However, John has had quite terrible headaches next day after larger quantities of oxycodone. After some research I found that it may be caused by dehydration. During last experiment he drank a lot more water and it did seem to help.
    Maybe in your case with tianeptine drinking more water would help also. I think it is worth a try.


    Thank you for sharing experiences and stay safe!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  4. phadl

    phadl Newbie

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    It's one of my magic pills, 4 to 5 after a week long break produce a very natural sense of happiness and well-being, carefree, calm, no side effects or any sense of being doped up or high even. It does lend itself to wanting to pop more and more of them, though, I put the pack well out of reach after taking a dose, and only allow myself once a day.

    They need to be taken before food, though.

    As a very migraine-prone, at least 2 attacks a week person, this has never given me so much as a tingle in my temple. It has nootropic properties too, if you can get yourself to do anything while being so happy, I usually just get mesmerized by random music videos I didn't even like that much before. I find it switches my taste in music to a very hipsterish place, not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but when I'm sober I enjoy much harsher stuff. It's definitely mellow, I've never tried pot but I imagine it has the same mellowing effect, but instead of a decline in focus and cognitive functioning, there's a definite upswing for me, the world makes perfect sense :)
     
  5. LifeSucceedsDeath

    LifeSucceedsDeath Newbie

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    Tianeptine is extensively metabolized. Major metabolites are analogs of tianeptine with a C5 and C3 lateral chain and a N-demethylated derivative. As it's metabolic route is hepatic, one should be able to find studies on the CYP substrate(s) responsible. However you've probably tried, as I have, and came up with nothing.

    As CYP3A4 and CYP2D6 are most present in the liver, that could be a potential starting point if you want to test it out. It's metabolites are formed by the cleavage of the "acetic acid tail", leaving a 5 carbon long side chain (C5), or further cleaved of two carbons leaving a 3 carbon long tail. These are pretty much found to be the two inactive metabolites, and as far as halting metabolism? You can try inhibiting the most common CYP substrates, such as grapefruit juice and other inhibiting agents mentioned all over the forum.

    That's all I could find out for now, hope you get your answers soon, you could always pay to read the many "mysterious" articles, lol, or hope someone with access see's this post. Good Luck Hunting :)

    -LSD
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  6. Allupato

    Allupato Newbie

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    Of all medications of this type that I have been prescribed over the past few years this certainly seems to be the more pleasant and least obtrusive in terms of very few if any side effects but at prescribed doses doesn't strike me as being particularly effective. However Doubling up on the daily dose in one hit produces a hit of euphoria with what you could describe as a nice mellow tail off that lasts a few hours so I tend to stockpile for those really dark days.

    Combining with meth I realise is not a responsible or encourageable activity but despite that have found that it improves both the actual high and prevents any of the normal comedown nastiness. Sufficient quantities of both taken in conjunction have also lead to pleasant hallucinations both visual and auditory.
     
  7. Horned Demon-Monkey

    Horned Demon-Monkey Silver Member

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    From what I have heard John took LSD while being on tianeptine and 150mg bupropion SR (at morning). Again warning: not wise idea to combine anti-depressants with recreational drugs (bupropion lowers seizure threshold), but sadly John certainly isn't the wisest person out there - although he always does extensive research before experiments.

    Anyway, it was incredible experience. Visuals were strong, body high was enjoyable, mood was great. Not at any point he felt like he could have bad trip or anything like that. In addition to the regular therapeutic doses he took 3-4x12.5mg when coming down from LSD (maybe at T+6 hours). I'm not sure whether it was because of tianeptine (or bupropion or both), but 12 hours after dropping acid he was still able to get pretty nice visuals with only a little bit effort. Sadly, it was his first time testing acid, so there's nothing to compare with. However, I think it was so far the most beautiful experience of his life. And therapeutic.

    If I would happen to meet John again and he has done more experiments with acid, then I'll certainly let you know.
     
  8. thirdeyelasik

    thirdeyelasik Silver Member

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    Looks like an interesting compound I have come across this and am interested on how this compares with Phenibut in terms of euphoria and anti anxiety qualities. I understand it is a prescription called Stablon in Europe which makes it seem pretty safe to try out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
  9. thisoneguy

    thisoneguy Newbie

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    Jeff takes 1.5mg Haldol, 40mg Sertraline, 10mg diazepam, and 20mg propanolol (inderol) every day.

    Jeff is 180lbs, 5'8', with no health conditions. However, he has suffered multiple mild TBI's and claims the doctors were wrong when psychiatrists diagnosed him with schizoaffective disorder after he had retrograde amnesia with a psychotic flashback 2 and a half years after his first TBI. This all happened a number of years ago; his history is quite interesting..

    He got some tianepine solution the other day, and tried it out. He said he tried a lot out, like over 150mg's of it. It's liquid and came with a dropper. He said it did very little for him, and tasted like cough syrup. After some time he said it blurred his vision a little and made him feel more dysphoric. He said ther was no recreational value in it, and probably wont try it again.

    Jeff used to enjoy using and occasionally abusing amphetamines before he started on the haldol. He said after the haldol took effect, the amphetamines stopped working, so he found a substance called alpha-pyrrolidinovalerophenone.

    He claimed the only drug/medication that seemed to have any positive recreational and medical effect was a-PVP, in addition to his medication regiment, when it was legal. He claimed to have minimal side-effects to it after a few days of regular use, and that it could be a replacement for amphetamine to aid his cognition abilities, since amphetamine doesn't work with haldol or other dopamine antagonists. He said the a-PVP felt weird at first, but he began to tolerate it well quickly, despite what is typically described of those who do not enjoy it and have abused it.

    Since he had to stop using it because it was banned by the DEA (under temporary emergency scheduling, I believe, he has been searching for a new alternative. He believes the medication (a-PVP) helped him to concentrate on his self through meditation, focus, and good use of his energy, despite the paranoia he claimed he could control well. He also claimed it provided him some relief from his general feelings of anhedonia and dysphoria. Since he's stopped taking the a-PVP, he's been searching for something new, so he tried a tianepine solution. Not at all what he was looking for, he said, since it didn't do anything for him.

    He believes his treatment is incorrect for his condition, and wants to get off everything except the vallium (because he has very bad panic attacks, so severe that they paralyze him), and treat only the acute conditions of TBI and mood while experimenting regularly with psychostimulants, due to his belief in his personal choice of medical care and goals. He says nootropics like phenylpiracetam and noopept help with his cognition despite the haldol; they decrease the dysphoria and anhedonia a little and boost his concentration. Stimulants have always seemed to work, so he liked taking adderal (sp.) or methamphetamine before he began Haldol; not just for recreational purposes, but also to improve his motivation and concentration and ability to want to perform regular daily actions. Since he began the haldol, he has become very sluggish and down often, except when he took large amounts of methamphetamine (.5-1gm/day). He said he still slept even while after using a half gram of methamphetamine while on haldol. I think he's sluggish because of the Haldol, but also because of his cognitive decline due to TBI and PTSD, and probably the meth use. But the thing is he's so able and not so disabled when he takes it. And he believes it too, so he's tapering off the haldol.

    Sorry if I've told you an irrelevant story about my friend who has used tianepine solution. His experience with Tianepine Solution, he says, was not worth the price of the product. He doesn't recommend it, but realizes that for some people, it might actually do something beneficial. I hope Jeff can find the right doctor that trusts and respects his judgment in medication use and abuse, and show respect to his knowledge of experimental pharmacology with some dignity. He gets his health care through the government as he is ex-military. He says he would pay for a decent doctor out of his own pocket if he had to. He's a smart guy, and I hate to see him going through this cognitive decline.

    There are medications that work for him, but not haldol or tianepine, and he wants to be able to have access to those medications with the right doctor. Say a prayer for him, please.
     
  10. Horned Demon-Monkey

    Horned Demon-Monkey Silver Member

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    Has anyone tried administering Tianeptine by rectal route? Please share your story. Especially interesting are differences from oral consumption.

    Oral bio-availability should be 99%, but like with some other drugs with high bio-availability, the plugging is still used. It may change other properties of drug: such proving rush that some user like.

    Is it for a bad idea for Tianeptine? For example perhaps some chemicals may cause irritation in bowels after deployment???

    if there seems to be no warming signs:
    There are enough step-by-step tutorial how to perform rectal administrations of other drugs. Is there different that should be noted when preparing solution or administrating Tianeptine through rectum?
     
  11. benzopiated

    benzopiated Newbie

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    I find tianeptine highly recreational (for me, in combination with benzos though this could be dangerous for some). I am using doses around 100mg and get a strong opiate like effect with nearly no speedy effects -- just awake, perhaps. I have even found myself nodding briefly and this is coming from a person who just got off of buprenorphine 24mg/day.
     
  12. (NS)-M-Lo-Reason

    (NS)-M-Lo-Reason Titanium Member Donating Member

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    The material my manticore has been using is EXTREMELY irritating to soft tissue. Insufflation is unbearably painful, as is IM use. I would imagine to plug this stuff would be a recipe for, at best diarrhea, and at worst long lasting pain and possible damage to rectum. Don't do it!
     
  13. Mr_Spiffy

    Mr_Spiffy Silver Member

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    I used tianeptine with phenylpiracetam and found this combination awesome, the phenylpiracetam really helps the tianeptine last much longer.
     
  14. Mr_Spiffy

    Mr_Spiffy Silver Member

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    Has any encountered extra anxiety when using frequent larger doses? (e.g. 50mg 3 times a day)
     
  15. CORNROWS

    CORNROWS Silver Member

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    Found this written online somewhere by someone else, thought I'd copy and paste it in this thread as it seems to be relevant:

    ---- Begin paste

    Having come off of the big H a few weeks back, and cycling through loperamide, to kratom, to low dose bupe, I was still left with a physical dependence and didn't feel GOOD. I never felt good in my life, which is why I started using opiates, so I have a very low tolerance to withdrawals as I used opiates because I didn't enjoy even feeling normal. I was about to run out of bupe when I heard of tianeptine and it's mu agonism properties, and promptly thought that this would be a great new drug to maintain on. I was wrong.

    I started dosing it at normal, or maybe double recommended doses, and it worked well at just maintaining me. But then of course curiosity got the best of me and I took a big dose. Boom, full opiate high. There seemed to be no ceiling to it either. I quickly over a few weeks got up to over 2 grams a day (!!). I was high the whole time and happy and loving it. But supplies are sketchy right now, and God caused a delivery to be lost in the mail because he obviously knows there is no limit to how high you can go with this stuff. It seems to have a ceiling effect with respiratory depression, and is generally less sedating. But the half life is a pain as towards the end you will be waking up in the middle of the night to dose.

    Right now I've taken over 200mg of loperamide in the past 12 hours just to mask the tianeptine withdrawal from 2 grams. The loperamide covers it better than it covers H withdrawals- I feel 95% normal instead of the maybe 70% normal you usually feel substituting loperamide for other opiates- but this is still a really dangerous game- not to mention I'm taking a huge dose of loperamide. Tianeptine is insanely "moreish." On it I had dreams of just ordering kilos and taking it for the rest of my life, but I'm sure I could get to doing a kilo a day and dying from it eventually.

    Anyways, for anyone opiate dependent who is interested in this- I would say if you are in a bind and out of your DOC it will stave off withdrawals for sure- but any long term use of it is going to get insane really quick and the half life makes you a crazy slave to it. Just wanted to share this experience since I know there's more out there (Tianeptine keeps selling out everywhere- wonder why) who are addicted heavily to this stuff.

    ---- End of paste. Scary post right?
     
  16. Lady Codone

    Lady Codone Titanium Member

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    I've been using tianeptine since February for depression caused by benzo withdrawal. Here's my take:

    * There is an immediate mood-boosting effect with the first dose.
    * This "immediate" (mild) euphoria fades quickly and doesn't come back.
    * Tianeptine increases my motivation to exercise and improves my stamina/breathing.
    * The effects are strange: indirect dopamine stimulation with an ever-so-slight opiate-like feeling.
    * The duration is 2 hours, so redosing becomes annoying.

    The abuse potential is really low when used as directed. If you don't have depression, you probably won't get much benefit from this one. It's not a miracle cure for depression either but it's good to have something other than SSRIs in my arsenal. If you have ANY opiate tolerance whatsoever you will find tianeptine completely bunk in the recreational department.

    If you're looking for a cheap high, there are far better things, including codeine, Ultram and kratom.
     
  17. CORNROWS

    CORNROWS Silver Member

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    Lady Codone, I am going to have to disagree with you re: opiate tolerance and recreational effects. It doesn't matter how high your opiate tolerance is, you CAN, and if you order 10 grams in bulk at a time, WILL take megadoses and no matter what your tolerance is you will feel a short lived but definite opiate high. I know someone who went from a bundle a day of NYC H right to a gram of tianeptine a day with no withdrawals.
     
  18. Lady Codone

    Lady Codone Titanium Member

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    ^ Perhaps if you feel safe taking a ridiculously high megadose it would provide some sort of high. The recommended dose for depression is 12.5 mg. Seeing people taking 100, 200 or 300 mg doses is disheartening, as it's sure to lead to the compound getting banned when people inevitably die or get hopelessly addicted.

    Tianeptine is pretty forgiving but there's nothing to suggest doses that high are safe. When you consider that many users are drinking or taking other drugs in combination, well...it's a recipe for disaster. I'm sure you could get high off almost ANYTHING if you take enough of it. The question is whether it's safe or advisable.

    Not trying to preach, I just don't want to see this compound get banned due to recklessness. Would be a shame for anyone to die from it too.
     
  19. Mr_Spiffy

    Mr_Spiffy Silver Member

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    I had posted here on how anxiety was caused by tianeptine, but just recently found another compound was causing this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  20. chupamivergaguey

    chupamivergaguey Silver Member

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    I fall into the category of people who start small and end up on megadoses relatively quickly. 50mg every few hours worked great for a few days. Within three weeks I was at 250mg 4 or 5 times a day. Then, upon abrupt cessation, experienced opioid-like Withdrawals symptoms. Tapering helped, along with 8-10mg of loperamide. The particular symptoms were definitely opioid -- hot flashes like a burning all over the body, allergy symptoms with an ugly cough and watery eyes/nose, and profuse night sweats. A previous tianeptine run had the same symptoms, but with diarrhea. Symptoms from other opioid WDs that were missing included restless legs, day sweats, cold flashes, and alternating hot/cold flashes. To some extent there was the inability to get comfortable, but not to the same extent as other true opioids.

    This thread is about recreational use, so I better include something about recreation in here. Not bad but terribly moreish; causes insomnia which I tried to drink off on a daily basis. Somewhat functional, but sober is probably better, and this stuff made me take it to get out of bed in the morning - especially after trying to drink it off and throw in some etizolam for good measure. Not a good habit to be in. Therefore, it's on to a new habit. I'm done with tianeptine. Until the next time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2014