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Tramadol for opiate withdrawals

Discussion in 'Opiate addiction' started by djgillbilly, Mar 5, 2011.

  1. djgillbilly

    djgillbilly Newbie

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    So my neighbors auntie is going through intense opiate withdrawls from taking 160mg of oxy a day, and is on day 4 of nothing. she is trying to get off the drugs completely. She has 8 tramadols that she is considering taking but has read that they are also an opiate, so if she takes some off these tramadols will that just put her back on day 1?
     
  2. &rew

    &rew

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    160mg oxy-codone or morphone? If 160 codone then IMHO one should just stay home and get ill few days, maybe take some benzos for sleep if one can't fall into sleep last 48 hours. All this will be gone and in one's age it should be like a flew.

    But it is all personal, beside the pain, significantly how patient accepts this pain and last part main part of pain. Accept it as some kind of flew that will be gone soon, don't concentrate on it, take a walk (yes, it's hard to walk out, but after couple minuets of walk, one will get better), don't forget about hot bath as short help -- 20-30 mins no WDs.

    SWIM sure this forum has a lot advise how to help with light WDs. Tramadol.... which one? 50, 100, 200, 500 or 1000? Taking tramadol now just increase WDs period for a few days.

    &rew added 9 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

    What SWIM meant is that tramadol, probably, not the best option for neighbors auntie.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  3. zerozerohero

    zerozerohero Titanium Member

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    spreading the 8 tramadols over 8 days might be a good way - they will take away some of the primary withdrawal symptoms but do not constitute an addictive dose by themselves. Then again, SWIY should seek help at the doctors, maybe he could prescribe SWIY something to take the edge off and get SWIY to get off opiates in a controlled and "soft" manner.
     
  4. davestate

    davestate Gold Member

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    Personally if you are at day 4, I wouldn't touch them. You should be on the up in terms of feeling better, and any opiate consumed, especially one as weak as tramadol, will not really do much good. When I had a decent codeine tolerance (like 400mg's a day) tramadol did absolutely nothing for me, no effects or real relief at doses up to 300mg's.

    So for an oxy tolerance of yours, I really don't think it'll help, and will more likely harm by drawing out the WD's
    You should be pleased to have made it this far, for shorter acting opiates day 3-4 usually marks the peak of symptoms, so it's understandable you'd want some relief. Just think, in about another 4 days you should be home free in terms of physical WD's.

    Keep going!:thumbsup:
     
  5. Piglet

    Piglet Titanium Member

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    I found tramadol very little help - high doses were needed & it was more to combat depression than physical symptoms. It's amazing how little of the original drug-of-addiction is needed to allow one to sleep. Sweating it out all day & then taking a small dose to allow sleep can be an effective tactic.
     
  6. southern girl

    southern girl Newbie

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    I would have to agree with Davestate, though my friend Peaches completely sympathizes with you. Any withdrawal is horrendous, much less a moderate oxycodone habit. Peaches has experienced WD's from a 120mg a day habit, but she only lasted 48hrs. 4 days is great! After 4 days, you've gotten through the worst part, keep going! Flush those tramadol, they are not worth it. Think of everything you've been through these last 4 days, you dont want to have gone through all that pain and suffering for nothing. They are simply not worth it.

    As far as your question goes, it actually all depends on the person really. I dont think you would have to start completely from day 1 if you took a couple of tramadol ONCE. But if you kept taking them, then yes. Some people even say that tramadol WD is worse than true opiate WD because of the SSRI qualities they also have. I believe I read someone wrote that the WD's from tramadol felt like opiate and SSRI WD rolled into one. So I woud definitely not encourage you to take tramadol for more than 3 consecutive days considering you already have an opiate tolerance and dependence.

    Will it help you with you WD's? This all depends on the person as well, in my opinion. Fortunately, or maybe unfortunately, for Peaches, low doses of weak opiate still pull her out of WD's but do nothing for her actual chronic pain that the 60mg OxyContin's (slow release oxycodone) is prescribed for. She is able to take as low as 100-150mgs of tramadol and she would no longer be in WD. Same for codeine, she can maintain and not get "dope-sick" on as low as 90mgs. I guess that just shows how different people are. Some, such as Piglet above, dont have much luck with tramadol during WD's.

    I hope your friend was strong enough to not take the tramadol and is starting to feel better. The withdrawal will only get better now. Congrats on getting this far, its well deserved. Please keep us updated.

    Best wishes
    SG.xxx
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  7. veritas.socal

    veritas.socal Silver Member

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    i dont know how many people will believe what i say...dont care
    ive kicked a few times off of heroin before going to prison, kicked morphine in there, and kicked oxy/all opiates for good almost a year ago
    if your aunt can do it, chamommille tea with honey, has no opiates in it, so one would think it does nuthin, especially for a hard head who thought he knew it all(even back then), and was expecting it to not work.
    the chamomille tea totally helped the stomach stuff, and seemed to generally ease the suffering, but sure didnt cure it. smoked 40g of hashplant in 3 days(had help smoking) which also helped. but nothing works

    as an aside, i ofter take 3-400mg trams a day for pain, but if i plan on doing something that day, in which i dont want trams in my system, i just dont take them. no wd, even like 2 1/2 wks straight.(normally only skip one day at a time tho...they ARE for pain, just cuz i wont take opiates(right now...the 1st epidural didnt do shit, so they may have to try somethin different
     
  8. djgillbilly

    djgillbilly Newbie

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    well she was smoking oxycontin 80mg for a year and a half, often went to heroin as a substitue and pretty much and any pain killer she could get. last night she was in extreme pain and depression and gave in to the tramadols taking 5, 50mg ones. after about an hour all the pain was gone but she felt like that she was high off of pain killers. now she feels like that she has just relasped and is going to have to start the whole process over again. :confused:
     
  9. salgoud

    salgoud

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    Tramadol can be used for opiate withdrawals, Leo did off some Norcos 10 aroud 8 a day.

    Unfortunateley, 300mg of tramadol woudn't phase the 160mgs Oxycontin daily dose. It could help for one day, but Oxy's are just such a strong Opiate and tramadol, a very weak opiate to detox on. They would help if the tolerance developed by taking 160mgs of Oxy a day. Try one a see if it helps. It does have anti-depressant activity, actual pretty strong A-D activity.

    I would start thinking a different strategy.

    good Karma,
    salgoud
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
  10. TheBigBadWolf

    TheBigBadWolf Cold Member Palladium Member Donating Member

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    AW: Re: Tramadol for opiate withdrawals

    djgillbilly,
    My friend, the big bad wolf has read your posts here and told me to write the following to your auntie (because he's not capable typing with his paws):

    Yes, You are right , this was a relapse. So what?
    The doses of Tramadol was not this big to send your withdrawal back to beginning. Try to not do more relapses until your w/ds are over and you will be fine. Relapsing once during withdrawals is not such a big thing, no need to be afraid of prolonged w/d. So please don't give up because of one slip. Carry on abstaining from your DOC, in a week you will have it through.

    Yours sincerely,
    TBBW
     
  11. RaoulDuke32

    RaoulDuke32 Silver Member

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    The important thing is abstaining from Oxycodone, like wolf said. If you felt like you were high off the tramadol, my dogs guess is you actually werent. You probably just have been in pain for several days and feeling normal is an unexpected gift. Even if you were a little high, dont get down about it. It doesnt set you back to square one. Far from it. Your doing great, just keep at it and dont feel guilty if you take a small dose of tramadol or suboxone or methadone if you feel like you have to. Of course it would be best to stay away from all opiates, but realistically you have to choose the less of two evils.

    That person at the top saying that 160mg daily oxycodone w/d is like a mild flu is wrong. sorry. Its bad. you have to do what you have to do to stay away from hard opiates.

    Now by my count you either have 3, or if youve taken them, 0 tramadols left. Please go to the doctor, get some meds and possibly counseling if your having trouble after this.

    There is no shame in not being able to go cold turkey.
     
  12. Drummer16

    Drummer16 Newbie

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    SWIM used tramadol for over a year on and off. SWIM must say Tramadol withdrawals are far worse than normal opiate withdrawals. Also, there are the added SNRI, SSRI withdrawals to come off of as well leaving you literally unable to do anything and depression. SWIM had to use heroin to come off of his worst tramadol binge...and he had to use 4 g's of it in a week, then come off the Heroin which was much easier. Do not trade one addiction for another. SWIM now has oxymorphone prescribed 60 20mg a month to him. He snorted all of his last rx within 3 weeks. Swim was taking 4 20mg oxymorphone a day which is equal to like 320mg of oxycodone a day. What do you know, now he's on day two of Oxymorphone withdrawals, which is the strongest pure opiate in pill form by far, because he doesn't have his next appmt for a week. SWIM is writing to you only taking his 2 mg Klonopin to go to bed and just manning the eff up during the day. SWIM has done opiate withdrawals at least 20 times over the last 4 years. Day 1-3 is the worst depending on the half-life of the drug. After day 3 you are usually clear, unless you're dealing with tramadol where it takes 5 days. SWIM is having all sorts of muscle aches, panic attacks, cravings, acid reflux, hot/cold flashes, restless legs, blue light hallucination flashes, and he just has to deal with it. Immodium is your friend, benzos are your friend, vitamins are your friends, ibprofen is your friend, and so is keeping yourself busy and laughing and exercising. Just man the eff up and deal with the pain. I often pretend I am dealing with some really bad sickness, which helps if you can convince yourself of that.
     
  13. RaoulDuke32

    RaoulDuke32 Silver Member

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    Hey drummer, guitarist here:
    You should really be careful in saying that you used heroin to get off tramadol and not the other way around. Saying that tramadol withdrawal is worse than heroin withdrawal is like saying caffeine withdrawal is worse than methamphetamine.

    The depression one may experience when coming off tramadol may be noteworthy, but i doubt its really comparable to the pain of coming off 160mg of oxycodone or 80 mg of oxymorphone.

    RaoulDuke32 added 1 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...

    Tramadol is OTC in some countries....how could it possibly be the worst opiate to be addicted to? How could you use heroin to...nevermind...
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  14. Drummer16

    Drummer16 Newbie

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    Hi guitarist. Well let SWIM just say that if you haven't read the horror stories of people coming off of taking 1000mg+ a day of Tramadol you should read them. SWIM was somewhere near that number when SWIM had to come off of it. SWIM also was only chasing the dragon and not IVing the h. He had experienced both of the withdrawals before choosing to do this method. Unfortunately with tramadol, you get the depression, the inability to move, crazier anxiety, PLUS all the normal symptoms you get from normal opiate withdrawal.

    SWIM is not saying that the original poster should not try tramadol for a few days during the withdrawal. He is just saying that the OP should make it a few days and that's it. If he does it for 7 days, that's pushing it. Plus, he will need to have a high dose of tramadol if he is used to that much opiates anyways in order to counteract the w/d symptoms. After those few days, he will still need to face the facts that his body will have to adjust to life without the sedating effects of opiates. Day 2.5 for me! This is awful, lol, but at least I know what to expect.
     
  15. daudi81

    daudi81 Silver Member

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    Don't do it. Tramadol withdrawals are a hell of it's own category.

    My friend has withdrawn off Tramadol, and I've also done a lot of research on Tramadol withdrawal. Those that have withdrawn off both true opiates and Tramadol usually say the Tram is worse - probably due to the multi-drug effect it has on your body - or so I've read.
     
  16. RaoulDuke32

    RaoulDuke32 Silver Member

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    People who have withdrawn off true opiates and tramadol alone do not usually say the tramadol is worse. Thats a blanket statement that just isnt true. Maybe some people thought tramadol w/d was worse than vicodin, but very few think its worse than a heavy habit.

    Tramadol is a weak opiate. Just because it stimulates serotonin and noreprinephrine as well doesnt mean its going to cause worse w/ds than real opiates.

    And people who are taking 1000 plus mg a day of tramadol are putting themselves at risk for seizures and shouldnt be doing so in the first place. Its probably almost as dangerous to do as it is to w/d from.

    Any personal experiences to either reinforce or rebuke all the assumptions ive made are welcome.

    RaoulDuke32 added 0 Minutes and 54 Seconds later...

    Maybe the OP could tell us how it went for them

    RaoulDuke32 added 6 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

    Heres a relevant thread stacking up opiate w/d with tramadol - http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86797
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
  17. salgoud

    salgoud

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    I knew a girl was got on the Methadone Clinic because of tramadol withdrawals. Tramadol w/d's can set in quickly. Any opiate a person is on, they will sooner or later have to taper. Whether it be methadone, Suboxone, Subutex, Oxycodone, tramadol. Tramadol some day will be a Schedule IV drug. It already is in Kentucky. The FDA was going to keep up with addiction prone humans, and see if a tramadol is addictive. Hello out there, it is addicting.

    Tramadol is a two step drug. You have the tramadol (mild opiate feeling), then four hours after it metabolizes to O-desmethyltramadol. Then things start to happen. The tramadol has turned into a much stronger drug, no rush, because it is slow to metabolize, around 4 hours.

    Tramadol is a drug, that was never fully tested, they wanted a "non-addictive" pain killer only by prescription. Money, money lobbiest money. They are very addicting, when taken in large amounts over a month, once, at least Buddy did, feel withdrawals. It's a depressing W/D, most are, but tramadol and it's Anti-Dep. activity will have to be dealt with also.

    salgoud - they are making some strange opiates out there. I think we have enough. There is no magic bullet for an opiate withdrawal. But anyone with any kind of opiate W/D, will not enjoy it, at all, so a girl gets on methadone, and hopefully doesn't let the staff talk her in to going up, 120mg. That is the staff's target dose. Then they feel you will not feel a couple of bags of heroin. What b*llshit. Anything that gives one an euphoria, when taken away suddenly, and that includes a multitude of drugs.

    salgoud
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
  18. halfwaysober

    halfwaysober Newbie

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    *****I KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT****
    I am reading these responses and it makes me sick. so many people give secondhand information (they heard it, or read it and pass it on as advice), and also, no one ever speaks on the issue at hand (rarely)


    Tramadol is not a weak opiate like codeine... i do not know the terms or the science behind it but I do know this. 2 years ago tramadol was considered non-narcotic, now it is considered a narcotic.. why??? who knows probably has to do wiuth some contract.

    anyways in my EXPEIRIENCE (spell check) EEXXPPEEIIRRIIEENNCCEE tramadol tolerence does not rise along with other opiate tolerance... when im all junked out shooting a half gram a day i can take 3 or 4 trams (50mg) and get a nice buzz..... Whats the point?
    The point is that tramadol acts differently on the brain than ur standard opiate (dont know the science just know what i found in light research and personal EXPEIRIENCE) I think tramadol should be readily available outpatient for anyone tryiung to get off dope (H)

    IMPORTANT:***Tramadol gives you an opiate like buzz but does not stop physical withdrawal symptoms. methadone and suboxone are just replacements, tramadol is a buffer.. tramadol is the miracle drug. If you take 2 to 3 trams when ur sick, u get a nice little buzz which takes away the constant panic/fear/craving, but your body still goesa thru w/d. I relapsed 2-3 months ago. Now im shooting 3 bags at a time 1-2 times a day. If god will give me the strength and i give him the effort and SPEND A CRAPLOAD OF TIME WITH PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND AND SUPPORT ME (support group) i will hopefully detox... my plan is day1: 3mg sub, 2: 3mg sub, 3: 1.5mg sub 50 mg tram, 4: 1.5 sub 50 tram, 5:100 tram, 6:100 tram, 7: 50 tram, or something like that. hopefully 1.5 mg sub is low enough that i will withdraw patially (hence tramadol to soften it). I stand by what I've posted: of this is false information I full heartedly apologize BUT i am confident that this information is accurate and can help people. ITTTS ON
     
  19. Petersen6981

    Petersen6981 Newbie

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    First off people Tramadol is not an opiate, it has the same effects on the brain but not an opiate. I have been addicted to opiates for around 9 years abd have just been 9 days clean today, (with the help of tramadol). It does at least for me help the urges I take up to 350 mg and feel pretty good. Over 400 is very dangerous. Remember ODB? He died from them, so be careful and good luck with your addiction.
     
  20. TheBigBadWolf

    TheBigBadWolf Cold Member Palladium Member Donating Member

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    Tramadol is counted under the opioids, but has additional properties as an antidepressant.
    See our drugs Wiki.

    To claim you were clean with taking tramadol is therefor nonsense,- as long as you take a med that works on your opiate receptors you aren't clean.
    Right this is the opioid effect - that you dont get a w/d from taking the trams.

    You might want to think your post over again,- your claims are abstruse.

    BBW