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Tramadol or Kratom withdrawals- which is worse? Using both and need help to quit!

Discussion in 'Opiate & Opioid addiction' started by pennyonwings, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. pennyonwings

    pennyonwings Newbie

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    Hi everyone. I am a first time contributor to ANY forum, so please bear with her. I have been using/addicted to Tramadol (daily use) for about 10 yrs. Swim began with 1 50 mg pill per day and over the years increased to (at my worst) 10-12 pills per day. About 2 years ago I was able to bring that down to 6-7 per day. About a year ago swim knew she couldn't get her pills on time and was set to run out. Panicking, she heard about Kratom to help with wds. For a few days until her pills arrived she used small amounts of Kratom as a surprisingly good substitute. She surmised that the Kratom actually seemed more powerful and enjoyable than the Tramadol, which she had built a tolerance to and was just getting through the day on at that point. So when her pills arrived she decided to continue with them, fearing that the Kratom as a substitute might be worse. She continued to use both up to this present day because the Kratom gave her the energy and sense of well being she felt she needed to take care of her family. Currently I am taking 4 50mg Tramadol per day ( 2 @ a time) and 2 or 3 doses of Kratom about 6g each. I use powdered premium commercial Kratom. I am ready to get clean for good but isn't sure how to proceed. She thought of cutting out the Tramadol completely and just use the Kratom. Then she would either taper off from this or go cold turkey. Her main concern is not being in a state able to care for her two kids while dealing with wds. Don't know how to proceed. Does anyone know if wds from Kratom are less sever than from Tramadol? Many here have said Kratom has very little wd symptoms, but I have been using it daily for about a year which she thinks is different than their experiences, and her Tramadol use is pretty severe, she thinks. Swim thanks you for your help!
     
  2. Fentiful

    Fentiful Titanium Member

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    Penny,

    I can't speak of Kratom, but from my own experiences Tramadol WD's are very bad. Mainly because a, you have the opiate part of it, and b, you have the antidepressant part of it. If at all possible I would taper off of that one first, and then do the same for the Kratom. Doing both would make it very difficult and relapse very likely. Could you not for example start doing one or the other every other day, and then which ever one you are doing taper.....or if that approach doesn't work, like I said, start with the Tramadol and then once you are good with that go with the Kratom. Loperamide helps greatly with opiate withdrawals and tramadol as well.

    Good luck, I know first hand about the cycle you are in and it is very hard when you have kids. I commend you for not only thinking about it, but wanting to end it and it is very possible. You are making a great start, if I can help you in any way let me know!
     
  3. Aminatrix

    Aminatrix Silver Member

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    I definitely agree with Fent, I have a lot of experience using Kratom to fight WDs and also therapeutically on it's own, and it is your best bet at a successful withdrawal from Tramadol (best odds without seeing a professional that is).

    Like you've noticed, Kratom does have a physically addicting component.

    If you have access to medical cannabis, that is an excellent tool to let you drop your dose while fighting wd's. I was able to rapidly drop from 70mg/day methadone HCl to 15mg/day in 35 days using just cannabis, and Kratom rarely if I had a very bad craving.

    I recommend:

    Keep your Kratom dose stable, dropping you Tramadol dose by about 1 pill (maybe .5, idk if you have breakable ones). every 1-2 weeks. (start there and just listen to your body, a bit of discomfort is normal, but with discipline you will choose a bit of discomfort over a life of addiction.

    If you don't use/want cannabis, As you drop your tramadol,. you may feel the kratom isn't enough. Try and make it tilll your next kratom dose to increase the amount of kratom you take, because re-dosing isn't as effective.

    After you are only on 1 addictive narcotic, you can continue your tapering journey, and should be feeling much better.

    Keep us posted, let me know if you have any questions
     
  4. pennyonwings

    pennyonwings Newbie

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    Swim thanks you all for your kind advice.  She just gets scared because it seems like those who have used Kratom for extended periods report pretty gruesome wds. Swim wishes she had left the Tramadol alone back when she originally started Kratom. She felt such an increase in good feelings from the Kratom, that she hadn't had with the Tramadol for a long time, she was afraid that it would be a stronger substitute and consequently more difficult to stop. Now that she has been using for so long her tolerance has increased, her dosage has increased, and she fears she will have terrible wds now. She has read about how Kratom affects many different parts of the brain and it seems she has potentially made her sitch worse. Btw she is also taking celexa and welbutrin for depression. She thinks her emotions are pretty messed up due to the Kratom and Tramadol use that it's uncertain if these antidepressants are working properly or even necessary. It's been years since she has been straight. She can't remember who she was and fears who she will be without the drugs. She's had a taste of Tramadol wds a couple of times when without and knows that full on wds would disable her for awhile. She's praying for guidance in how to go from here.

    Currently, she is seeking info and advise and compiling a list of helpful aids for the big event. Amino acids seem good and many suggested drugs to help combat wd symptoms. Then she will formulate a plan and timeline for this to happen. It would be so much simpler if her children weren't dependent on her.

    Please keep the advise and encouragement coming! It really gives her hope 

    P.s. Swim likes your (sorry can't remember ur username now) quote. She too is one of those crazy "conspiracy" theorists! It's just ludicrous... These things couldn't really be happening....
     
  5. Fentiful

    Fentiful Titanium Member

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    Penny,

    In order to better assist you, more info would be helpful. Such as, do you plan to taper, or go cold turkey. Have you made a decision regarding which one you are going to get off of first, or are you going to attempt both, which is not advisable. Knowing those details would go a long way to pointing you in the right direction.

    You did what you did as far as getting yourself into this mess, and we are not here to judge you. No point in continuing to beat yourself up. You know you need to get off of them is the bottom line, so just focus on coming up with a plan and feeling good that you want and are doing something about it. Don't worry so much about the WD's as that just has a way of one keeping you on your DOC's and also makes the withdrawal much worse.

    Many have quit much worse addictions then you and have made it through the otherside just fine. Most of the problems you have and any subsequent damage you are concerned with will resolve itself once you put some time between using and stopping. IMHO the people who obsess over PAWs, post acute withdrawal syndrome, and don't try to work through and deal with the depression, anxiety, suffer much more intense and longer periods of it.

    If you're anything like me, I have two younger children, a husband and a family, I don't really have the luxury or time to focus on "how I'm feeling". Sure I have my days were I know I'm blah or feel "off", but since my kids are my number one priority and keeping a good home and being there for me is the most important thing to me I just focus on all the regular things vs. what I'm going through. After all isn't that one of our biggest motivators to get clean, to be "present" and there for our kids doing the best we truly can? When I'm not preoccupied with that, I watch shows I like, go swimming, go to the store, even if I have to force myself, and I'm usually glad that I did. Before you know it the bad times get further and further away.

    You might want to seek out a local support, or use forums such as these. Yes, for me when I was younger AA helped with a drinking problem I had, however it also had a lot of drawbacks too such as turning into a crutch, and meeting new people to party with. However at the time I don't think I was really motivated to quit. I have found if I focus too much on hearing about the drug or drinking lifestyle whether in AA or reading certain threads in here it just amplifies either my cravings or withdrawal related blahs. In otherwords becareful about others experiences, the ones who say that this went on forever, months or years. While I suppose it's possible, who knows if they were doing everything they could to minimize that, or had other underlying issues.

    If you already struggled with depression I would stay on the anti-depression meds until you are stable from coming off the drugs and then reevaluate as there can be a few ups and downs until you have completely detoxed and spent a bit of time getting your body and mind used to functioning without the buffer and numbing effects of opiates. It is also imperative that you start weaning off the tramadol immediately. Weaning will be best as tramadol withdrawal can cause seizures in some individuals and because it works similar to anti-depressants you could also have a reaction when mixed with the other anti-depressants you are on. These are just somethings for you to consider.

    In all honesty it may be best for you to find a doctor, your GP, or seek out treatment centers. Given the mix you are on, they truly know the best way to detox from them and can monitor you for any potential problems. If you don't choose that route I suggest that you quickly devise a taper plan, a lot of docs recommend cutting your dosage by a 1/4 per week and in some instances 2. Pay attention to your body and adjust accordingly. It may take longer but it also could be safer in the long run. Also start supplementing your body with vitamins and supplements that it is probably missing out on and start taking better care of yourself. If you don't who will be around to take care of your kids? Take care, hope this has helped.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2012
  6. 1pinkgirlygirl

    1pinkgirlygirl Newbie

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    omg penny i know exactly what u mean. AFOM has been on tramadol for 9 years becuz of serious spine issues. she is better now but kept taking tram becuz she lost soooo much weight and had so much energy to take care of her kids....that was in 2005. now she gained all the weight back, has a telerance, is taking 9 50 mg tabs a day, is currently a week off oxycodone and alcohol which she has been combining on a daily basis for about 4 years...and also is tapering of ativan. it seems like such a mess and a nightmare. she doesnt know if she will be able to do all this tapering off all this stuff at once becuz, like you she has depression and anxiety to the point that she is dizzy from chronic hyperventilation syndrome...something she has been trying to find a remedy to for 10 years but to no avail. the only thing that helps the dizziness that tortures her at every waking hour is the oxycodone wine combo...but she has 2 kids and doesnt wanna OD or mess up her liver and is so sick of being a slave to this drug...which she can get for free anytime....so its my first time posting ever...and i hope i am doing ok...but just wanted to say...i feel for you and know exactly what you are going through.

    1pinkgirlygirl added 7 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...

    also i forgot to mention after she is stabalized somewhat from going off alcohol, benzos and oxycodone, she plans do taper the tramadol....she is going to ask her husband to just dole them out to her becuz he is super responsible and knows all she does and she has no support except him whatsoever. let us know how its going.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2012
  7. pennyonwings

    pennyonwings Newbie

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    Fentiful,
    Thanks for your replies. I am still considering whether to go exclusively to Kratom. Like I said, she is just worried that could be like going from the frying pan into the fire. She has faith in her God and believes He will guide her and see her through this. At this point she is leaning toward tapering off the Tramadol, substituting with the smallest possible dose of Kratom to stay functional. She already feels tired and fatigued as it is and has little motivation to do things. She would then try to taper off the Kratom. If possible she could have the kids stay with grandama and then jump off completely during that time. She wants to eventually get off of the antidepressants as well. She has ordered and plans to try tryptophan and tyrosine as they seem the natural way to battle depression. This would mean she has to taper off the antidepressants first to avoid an overload of seratonin. She wants to be prepared mentally to fight this with a strong will, as well as having aids to help with physical and emotional issues if needed. Basically she is in the planning phase, as she wants to be ready to go through this without fear and feeling strong enough to power through to the end no matter what happens. She just doesn't know what to expect from Kratom wds, but she knows Tramadol wds are a force to be reckoned with. She is going to try to not focus on the wds and to stay occupied. She just wants to be sure she is going down the right path. Btw, her dr. wanted to send her to get help with this but it was suggested that she would be put on a stronger but longer lasting substance and this didn't make sense to her for fear, again, of trading one addiction for another. Her doc tried prescribing methadone for her but was unable to get it for this type of substance abuse or he wasn't the correct type of Dr to prescribe this... can't remember, but she supposes that was a good thing, knowing as she does know how bad methadone addiction can be. So she has decided to try doing this on her own.

    Of course she wants to quit for her family, but I think she is finally ready to do it for herself. She wants to be free again and now has hope that she can be. For so long she has felt enslaved to this with no hope of getting away from it's grip. It just seems to finally be the time for her to do this.

    Thanks for listening and caring : )