1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP

Dose - Use kratom for the first time

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by Denzil, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. Denzil

    Denzil Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    155
    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    from earth
    Hello,

    I've ordered Kratom to help me combat (drug induced) anxiety, depression and severe boredom, apathy, no motivation and anhedonia.

    I ordered test-samples of different kind of Kratom.
    I would like to know how much I should take of these, to achieve a minimal, but noticeable boost out of my anhedonia / chronic boredom.

    These I have ordered:
    - Green Malay
    - Red Borneo (Bali Kratom)
    - Red Riau
    - Red Sumatra
    - Red Thai Maeng Da
    - White Sumatra
    - Green Riau

    What kind is the best for motivation / apathy / boredom / anhedonia?
     
  2. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    12,355
    Messages:
    10,097
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    42 y/o from ireland
    Can you not just read some threads?

    Try 2 grams, if that does nothing try 4. Experiment.
    Green is more stimulating, red is more sedating.

    I do not recommend any for apathy or boredom. Get a hobby and get yourself motivated. Try exercising.
    Kratom might help with anxiety and depression at first but it can often make it worse after a while.
    Please make more of an effort to read through the forum.

    Go talk to your doctor about how you feel instead of trying to self medicate with addictive drugs.
     
  3. babalooj

    babalooj Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    460
    Messages:
    903
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    22 y/o from New York, U.S.A.
    If you are suffering from, as you say, drug-induced apathy, anhedonia, depression, etc., then why do you think kratom will be any different? At first, kratom may slightly and/or temporarily relieve these negative mind states, but with any longer term use it will just cause and/or worsen these things.
    In terms of addiction, kratom is not much different from other opioids; no addiction is good for anybody's mind
     
  4. Denzil

    Denzil Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    155
    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    from earth
    Thank you all for the advice.
    And Ianzombie, I know that I could read up on other threads, I even did that before opening this one,
    but I would like to have a channel where I can ask questions freely.
    But I appreciate it, in a way that I might of been unknowingly spamming this great forum and creating bad rep.


    I want to do this safely and not worsening my current condition. Cause currently it is agony..
    Can't stop obsessing about my mental health. I used to be a very smart guy (I even studied for chemical/electronic engineer) and now, I have this 'airhead' and feel like all processes in my brain have shut down over the years. It's frightening. (especially the last 3 months, duo to severe stress).
    I would do anything to help this. To stop this terror and give my brain a break. It's all my thoughts..

    I received the Kratom today. I took 1g of green malay. Right now I feel the calming effects. They are quite intense. I did not expect this.
    I want to do anything not to get a tolerance, yet have an escape out of my agony when it's at its worst.
    (now only seroquel can do this a bit, but it disables me to do something, and I feel it's not good for the brain either).
    You said a dosage of 2 to 4g, now I took 1g and I feel like I've taken 50-100 of tramadol. I even have some itches. So I guess I'm doing OK in the dosage department (will even go lower I think).
    Would it be possible to take 0,5g once a day and NOT develop a tolerance? And keep the beneficial effects?
    Has anyone does this before?

    I tried Phenibut before (dosages 250mg to 500mg) and I notice next day I feel worse..
    Is Kratom like this, or is it more gentle on hangovers/withdrawal?
     
  5. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    12,355
    Messages:
    10,097
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    42 y/o from ireland
    I dont think it really matters what dose you take, if you take it every day you will eventually need more to get the same effects.
    Take days off between doses if you want to continue to enjoy it, no matter how much you take.

    No one can tell you how you will feel the next day, you will find out for yourself how you feel.
     
  6. Denzil

    Denzil Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    155
    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    from earth
    Thanks, all these posts answer my question..
    So it is not appropriate for daily use.
    Will use this stuff only when needed then, cause I can't afford an addiction/withdrawal now.


    And now I'm feeling quite relaxed! This stuff is pretty nice, but disappointed in the way that I thought now I might have some motivational thoughts to do actually be interested in something and do something.. It sorta does the opposite.
     
  7. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    12,355
    Messages:
    10,097
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    42 y/o from ireland
    Its a drug very similar to opiates.
    You should treat it as such.
     
  8. poiuyt

    poiuyt Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    35
    Messages:
    28
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    from U.S.A.
    I use it daily, just like I drink coffee daily.

    Yes, it is 'like' opiates in some ways but different in others. No one is robbing banks or trading away their kids to get more kratom.

    Try a gram or two of maeng da after your morning coffee. See if you feel an energy boost from that.

    Not everyone can see a doc at any time, or one that will prescribe depression drugs. Can you? I found a combination of escitalopram and bupropion really turned me around in terms of depression, anxiety, and motivation.

    Anyway, kratom is known to produce different effects at different doses. If low doses are making you relaxed, try upping the dose a bit to see what happens. Try 3g one morning. Try 4g next time. 6g or above just starts making me feel like crap so, I am fortunate in that it is self limiting for me.
     
  9. Denzil

    Denzil Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    155
    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    from earth
    I'm affraid to use it daily. Right now it has made my serious suffering a bit manageable. I'm more calm and don't feel that inner terror less.
    I used a total of 2g. But like ianzombie said I should treat this like any opiate.
    Would you think a daily dose of 1g produce any tolerance?
    Right now I have something like this substance stops my suffering, I need it. That is troublesome, I guess.

    And .. I have such a dopamine deficiency that I think even high doses will not solve.
    I'm seeing a psychiatrist about my problem, and he prescribed me solian (amisulpride) together with seroquel and trazolan. They do nothing accept allowing me to sleep. But they numb me even further, causing me to think more and worsen the problem :/
    Depression drugs don't do anything. SSRI's actually make the problem way worse.
    My trouble started when experimenting with ethylphenidate (see my other threads).
     
  10. poiuyt

    poiuyt Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    35
    Messages:
    28
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    from U.S.A.
    Based on my own experience and observations, any amount of kratom you take regularly will cause some degree of tolerance and physical dependence. But just like you can have one beer every day and still feel a buzz, I still get a boost from kratom every day. That boost definitely diminishes if I use more the day before. I've found I have a pattern of starting low.. 2.5 grams per dose, usually three times a day, and over the course of a couple weeks I go up to 5 grams twice a day, with less efficacy as it increases. Then I realize I'm not getting anywhere so I just cut back to the 2.5g x 3. Oh, I also try to use different strains on different days.

    Based on what I've read around here for a couple years - I expect that at some point even my pretty nominal dosing will eventually stop working at all and then I'll either keep doing it just to avoid withdrawals or quit during a hell week (which I've done before). It seems such is the life of a kratom user :) Although one has to wonder about the Indonesians that use it daily forever.

    Kratom is interesting in that it has a couple different paths one can go down. I turned one buddy on to it years ago and every time he tried it (from my same source) he just vomited profusely and went thru a state similar to bad food poisoning. So people use for years daily, some people use a couple times a week. I wouldn't box yourself in to whatever kind of regimen anyone else suggests. Play with it and see if you can find something that works for you. If you can't make it work, I do suggest throwing in the towel and trying something else. Fighting with a drug sucks.
     
  11. Denzil

    Denzil Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    155
    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    from earth
    Thanks for the advice.
    I'm getting some comfort in the fact that it's herbal. And it's not like weed that it makes me zoned out.
    I guess it's better then taking anti-psychotic meds and anti-depressants.
    It calmes my nerves, to the point I'm not constantly obsessing how bad I feel and walk around back and forward and.. It allows me to have a grasp on how I'm feeling inside, and that is complete exhaustion. This gives me a positive reïnforcement as I can work with that.. it stops me obsessing why doesn't my brain do this, or that anymore .. I'm just exhausted. And I can adapt to that by being calm. Okay, this is really weird to explain, but it's like I don't feel A THING anymore, so nothing is to be done about it. It sucks to be in that state of mind. It just helps my mental pain to the point where my mind doesn't freak out about it, so to say.
    Best herb or thing I ever tried.
    I'm taking your advice and started playing around with it. I'm setting my limits at 1g of Kratom a day, divided in 2 doses of 500mg. I do notice a difference in different strains.
    I like the Red Riau Kratom for relaxation, and find Green Maly Kratom the most powerful.

    Would you say that a daily low dose keeps working (like an anti-depressant) or is it more like a benzo, that works in the beginning and then stops completely?

    About your hell-week, is it really hell, or more like annoying ?
     
  12. poiuyt

    poiuyt Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    35
    Messages:
    28
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    from U.S.A.
    For me personally, my week was hell. Went from around 8 grams a day to 0 cold turkey. Days 3-5 were the worst.

    And I would say only you will be able to tell us what that regimen feels like in two weeks. There's a lot of evidence that kratom just affects different people differently. Let us know how things are going in a few days. If a gram a day total works for you, that's awesome!

    Glad to hear you're feeling a bit better.
     
  13. Denzil

    Denzil Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    155
    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    from earth
    I'm at day 5 of my Kratom use.
    Still feeling the anti-depressant effects. I increased my dosage today to 2g b/c my family is coming to visit and I can't be anxious all the time. (they remind me of my good days, and then what I lost, how I am feeling different now).
    I'm sorta scared that I will have withdrawal effects from my Kratom use. I haven't been severely anxious and depressed for the 5 days of use now, I need these effects to stay. But it's too soon to tell right?
    Never had an opiate addiction.

    Oh, and does Kratom cause sexual dysfunction?
     
  14. Vexer08

    Vexer08 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    15
    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    from U.S.A.
    Denzil maybe my experience could shed some interesting insight into your current and future relationship with kratom. I began a little over 2 years ago, at first using it very reasonably and responsibly. I would take anywhere from 6-8 grams 2 days in a row then leave a 7 days off before using 2 more days. At this usage tolerance and negative effects were not a problem.

    However fast forward roughly a year give or take a few months. My usage became 1 dose a day of the same amount 6-8 grams. Now tolerance started to become apparent. Let me not lie and say the good effects totally vanished at this usage level. They did however become lesser in intensity and much shorter in duration.

    So now let's fast forward a few months from when my daily use started and I began to use kratom multiple times a day. Usually 2 times but 3 doses wasn't uncommon either. My tolerance got to the point that I would kinda be using to just feel normal and be able to go about my usual routine of work and raising my child.

    In my humble opinion Denzil you just need to ask yourself are you really ready to ride this kratom train daily? I know now it may seem all benefits and no drawbacks but with daily use it can change. Though it's still possible you may not mind the habit. I should point out that I'm not in anyway demonizing kratom. It's a wonderful plant that should be respected. As was mentioned before if your bored or depressed find the root of the problem. Kratom my help short term in the honeymoon phase of the drug but it also has the potential to eventually make those feelings worse in the long run.

    I wish you the best good sir. Stay safe and responsible. :)
     
  15. wilfy1979

    wilfy1979 Mercury Member

    Reputation Points:
    100
    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    from U.K.
    Mate you can use it daily yes, make a tea and chill out with it, use what i do about 5-6grams, and maybe on a weekend do what most the population do go a bit crazy, don't do as people tell you on here, they can advise you on names and maybe an experience, but i doubt the gobby ones with a massive post count have the balls or knowledge to take anything in depth, these people are generally very quiet non assuming types..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2015
  16. Denzil

    Denzil Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    155
    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    from earth
    I'm getting very confused now about this drug..
    Youtube is full about video's of 'the truth behind Kratom', and they all say it's a very positive thing in their lives.. Also now I notice that previous days I discarded the negative I've read, and only held on to the positive I've read b/c I so desperately need every tiny thing that helps a bit..

    I'm withdrawing from my meds now. Maybe my brain is now thinking a bit more clearly, and I seem to start understanding what's all being said in these posts.
    I need to tamper this drug use. Getting a hobby is out of the question, I can't get interested in nothing. Going to the gym (and I'm not a gym-type-guy) I seem to be able to do.
     
  17. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    12,355
    Messages:
    10,097
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    42 y/o from ireland
    Youtube is the last place i would go to get information about drugs.
    People can say anything there and they usually go uncontested.
     
  18. Denzil

    Denzil Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    155
    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    from earth
    It's now been a week and a half since I started using Kratom.
    Doses have been stable so far, about 3-4 grams a day. I do not allow me to take more, nor do I need more.
    And I don't use at day time. (but it's tempting to do so).
    I do experience some side effects. I get rather hot when I dosed 2g's of Kratom. And I get sweaty.
    I do worry about the effects on my liver, is Kratom known to cause liver damage??
    Also, I'm out of my favorite red borneo. I dose before sleep. Can I use other strains for sleep (I ordered a sample package), or will it most likely affect my sleep negatively?
    I have green, white and red vain Kratom. I know the red ones are more sedating, but will the green and white one also do the trick?