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using loperamide for opiate withdrawal

Discussion in 'Opiate addiction' started by cren, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. cren

    cren Titanium Member Donating Member

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    What is the best way to use loperamide for opiate withdrawal?

    I am about to quit 20yrs of opaites so I want to be prepared

    I have read that it is much better to take more than the recommended dose.
    My concerns with this is causing constipation and the fact that my insides have been giving up in me from long term otc codeine products. I have had bleeding stomach and liver problems and colitis from 20 yrs of abuse and I am worried taking over the recommended dose will make my body fall apart even more.

    So I have been looking into using loperamide and ways to push it over the blood brain barrier.

    My concern with this is that the main purpose people use it is to get an opiate buzz but if I did it would it be a good alternative to taking the extra dose because of my weak stomach to help with withdrawal or will I be wasting my time because it will just prolong with withdrawals?

    I have read that adding things to loperamide doesnt work its just a placebo effect. This is no concern to me infact its only an attraction as any placebo effect will surely help me to get through withdrawal.

    Has anyone had any bad side effects from taking loperamide ?
    Has anyone had any bad side effects from pushing it past the blood brain barrier?
     
  2. LadySue

    LadySue Titanium Member

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    Cren: There are definitely things you can take with increased dosages of loperamide to get it to cross the blood brain barrier. Constipation and trading one addiction for another should be considered in this decision. Given your current health concerns, I would highly suggest you look at alternatives to help during your withdrawal and take the loperamide as it's directed and only for its intended use.

    What other alternatives (medications/supplements) have you looked into to help you during withdrawal? Will you be working with your doctor during your withdrawal? Are you planning a taper? What are you currently taking and at what dosage?

    If you're willing to post some more information, you might get some other suggestions to aid you in your planned withdrawal.
     
  3. RedMonkey

    RedMonkey Silver Member

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    So what are some things otc that we can take with lope to cross bbb? I've heard most of it is just either bs or placebo effect.
     
  4. LadySue

    LadySue Titanium Member

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    Hey Red - it's not something I would be comfortable posting the details of...especially in the recovery forum as people do struggle with loperamide addiction. The information can be found with a bit of research and using the search engine.

    There's a journal by Nefret that details her lope addiction (I believe there's a couple more people here that have posted about their addiction to it as well). It's an interesting and informative read that may aid you in drawing your own conclusion about placebo effect.
     
  5. RedMonkey

    RedMonkey Silver Member

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    No problem sue. I completely understand.
     
  6. Nefret

    Nefret Silver Member

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    Hi Nefret here :)
    Thanks for the introduction Lady Sue ;)

    Yes do read my Journal. I have 3 of them on this site. But the current one is easieR to find.

    I too have Ulcerative Colitis. For ME it has actually helped in that area.

    I am posting this, not telling you to do the Loperamide (we call it Lope btw) which is the gereric form of Imodium, or not to use it. This is only my experience and facts. Fact, Lope if used incorrectly can make one high. Def no placebo there. My pupils where pin holes, I have Noded of on many occasions, breaking many a nice mug LOL. My face almost went into my food and my hubby thought I was on Oxys again. I wasn't it was 100 % the Lope cocktail. Also staying up all night riding the high. I cannot smoke inside so I o outside. I nodded off in the freezing cold and my husband, thank God woke me up and took me inside, or by morning I would have froze to death! That but a fear in him and for the next few days he set his alarm on every hour to check on me so I wouldn't kill myself by mistake. Great husband but I will never forget what I put him thru...ever.

    What I should have done in the beginning using it only as a detox tool, was to take 12 or 10 pills with only a bunch of Vitamin C, the Ester C that has flavanoid in them to make the Lope a bit more bioavavailable and helps with the washroom issue. In detoxing I have found day 4 or 5 is the worst so I should have taken it for that length of time, then wean of the Lope by 2 Or 3 a day then I would have been done. But I though well its only Imodium...MY bad! I am weaning of these thing from around 60 a day with the cocktail, which seems for ever. The bathroom issues are the same like any strong opiate. I eat lots of green and tons of water. DO NOT TAKE THE AMOUNT I DID! Please. When I did take the 12 it took away about 90 % of the withdrawals including anxiety and RLS. I should have stopped there my friend. But I am weaning and I am at 30 pills. Away to go still to fix my really big mistake!

    Anyway there are other things like a short 5 day benzo stint, Clonidine etc.

    If you have ANY questions please feel free to come over to my thread and I will be more than happy to answer them for you IF I can :)

    All the best!! Keep us informed.
     
  7. cren

    cren Titanium Member Donating Member

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    Thanks very much for all of your responses

    I have started this to find the best way of taking lopes while withdrawing from opiates not worrying about the other remedies like benzos because there is so much conflicting info on how to take them (lopes) for opiate withdrawal and I want to find the best way.

    Thanks very much lady sue for your sensible and sound advise.
    I have really considered everything you have posted and read up about loperamide addiction.
    Nefret I have read your posts and I can see how it the lope addiction just crept up on you. I really admire your strength and conviction to do a taper as the constant mild withdrawals from a taper can wear you down hard in a psychological way.
    I can relate to your posts a lot as my codeine addiction came out of nowhere after giving up heroin and ms contins. Are you recommending the 10-12 a day ?

    As much as the idea of pushing it past the blood brain barrier appeals to me there is risk of it being more than just placebo. If I thought it was placebo I would do it as even placebo will help with withdrawals. But if its not placebo if it really works it will keep opiates in my brain longer prolonging my withdrawals and I don't want to risk that I want if I want it to be over fast.

    Now my questions is dosage.
    Would the recommended dose be to low as it is for diarrhoea not opiate withdrawal?
    How much will taking over the recommended dose stuff up your insides?

    I will now follow lady sue advise and finding other things to help me get through it although I find benzos dont help but there are heaps of good thread on that.
    My doctor wont help me I told them about my addiction and they refused any help just told me to quit and stopped prescribing me anything and am to ashamed to ask again to another doctor.
    If I taper lower thank what I am on I just bounce and go higher I have just settled with the fact this is the lowest stable dose I can have. I just want my health back. Its gonna get harder as I get older and its been to long just gotta do it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  8. LadySue

    LadySue Titanium Member

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    Hi Cren: There are many other things to help during opiate withdrawal besides benzodiazepines and loperamide (many of which are natural or over the counter). Have you read through the sticky thread "A how-to guide to opiate detoxification"? Here's a link for you in case you haven't:

    https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76991

    I would also suggest googling the Thomas Recipe.

    I think it's important to recognize each symptom of withdrawal and treat each as best you can. The thread above and the Thomas Recipe should give you lots of good ideas for this. I would still recommend only taking the loperamide as directed just to treat the symptom of diarrhea during withdrawal.

    Please keep us posted on what you decide.
     
  9. LumbarJack

    LumbarJack Newbie

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    Any word from cren on how things are going?

    Just wanted to contribute that my first experience using lopes for WDs was very positive, albeit a simple example.

    I had two days between running out of Norco and MS Contin ER and my next refill, then a surprise ice storm added another day. I took 20mg when I started to feel bad, then 10 mg about six hrs later. I felt fine for almost 18h, then repeated the same w/same result. I was only starting to feel bad about 2h before my Rx was filled. I did stay hydrated and took daily doses of Miralax. Very happy about things went and grateful to all who have posted on the topic.

    My back and sciatic pain - the original reason for the Rx - increased steadily over the 3d. The bonus was that I had to do some quick tapering to even get to the point where I only had a 2-3 day med gap, and it helped me get a better sense of how many meds I really need to address the pain vs how many I've been taking. Without the lopes I would not have been able to think clearly about that.
     
  10. cren

    cren Titanium Member Donating Member

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    Hi lumberjack, I haven't started yet. I have just found out there are some treatment options and am looking into all of them before I jump off them. I was worried about how lopes would effect my stomach and found my doctor really unhelpful. They gave me no support and don't want to deal with me cos I admitted my addiction so I am trying to find out my options. I am planning ahead this time round and gonna be prepared. I tapered off MS contin onto codeine but have been on codeine 20 yrs and take alot. Its good to know that you are able to be in such good controll. how are you going now?
     
  11. Totse

    Totse Newbie

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    I've used 50mg of Lope 3 times in the last 5 days and it's helped me tremendously. Can't say enough good things about it. I would caution to use it sparingly and be aware that it's given me a slight headache every time I've used it.

    Yesterday was the last time I will be using it so I can be completely opiate free.
     
  12. cren

    cren Titanium Member Donating Member

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    Oh wow congratulations Totse thanks for sharing your very first day clean news!
     
  13. nightprowler

    nightprowler Silver Member

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    I too have struggled with opiate addiction, and loperamide saved my ass, literally, many many times. However I had not heard about the brain blood barrier thing until somewhat recently. I do not think it is wise to do as it is consistent with the "one more high" mentality us opiate addicts can get when trying to quit. That said, I've seen suboxone help some people, although for the most part I've seen it not. What I'm trying to say is, I think you should certainly use it to help the physical withdrawal symptoms, but not to get high. If you don't want to quit getting high all at once, ween yourself off the substance you're already using. My advice though is to do it quick. There's no way to make it painless. And taking too long can backfire.
     
  14. had enough

    had enough Titanium Member

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    Hi cren, Sorry to read your doctor won't help you. When I first posted I got a post from Nefret saying that nowadays the medical proffestion looks at addiction as an illness, it's a shame your doctor is so far behind the times,
    You can do it cren, I'm doing the taper down thing, also after 20 odd years, I don't know anything about Lope, but whatever it takes...
     
  15. My_shit79

    My_shit79 Newbie

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    Has anyone experienced extreme dehydration while on the Lope? Although it helped tremendously with the withdrawals, I became so dehydrated that my the skin on my hands began to crack and even drinking copious amounts of H20 didn't seem to help.
     
  16. LumbarJack

    LumbarJack Newbie

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    cren, I made it ok to my next Rx, again w/only good results from the lope. I haven't yet decided what to do with what I learned about what's really required for my pain mgmt. I kinda just went back up to my max dose. oh the humanity. :)
     
  17. razzins

    razzins Newbie

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    From what I've researched so far, people who take massive amounts of lope (60g+) by itself have said their W/D symptoms calm down, like hot/cold, feeling of your skin running, and of course obviously diarrhea.

    In further research, I found other people stating you can get Lope to cross the blood brain barrier and get an opiate high, you just need P-gp inhibitors that'll help it cross. Some common substances I've read other users say work are Zantac or its generic Cimetidine, black pepper extract (?), concentrated grape juice (?) most SSRI's (zoloft, paxil), and apparently the best is quinine, which can be hard to find. I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff too, just don't quote me on any of this lol.
     
  18. Penalgland

    Penalgland Newbie

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    I've struggled with h/dilaudid (or n e opiate I can bang) addiction for years.
    I came across the lopermide recipe and was skeptical but I had no choice to try.
    You meen to tell me that this has been under my nose for the last ten years and I didnt
    Kno about it! Methadone treatment,suboxzone dr.rs,,, many of sleepless nights and it was
    That frickin simple, the shit works! And work great! 50mlgs of lope/ 600mlgs of ranitidine 30 mins b4 and a big Glass of grapefruit juice and Walla!! Dope sick gone! It has the stamp of approval
    From this junkie! I owe a lot to that raby looking guy on YouTube! IM gonna be moving to a new state
    And b4 ID be freakimg! Have no fear lope is here! Now to hit some meetings and get the quality of life I
    Deserve!
     
  19. Jungledog

    Jungledog Silver Member

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    If you plan to use the loperamide short term, go for it. Just be aware of the risks. Nobody here has discussed the very real risk that this shit can kill you.

    Loperamide is basically fentanyl with one molecule fucked with to prevent it from crossing the blood brain barrier. It does though briefly cross the blood brain barrier but it is quickly kicked back out by an enzyme. But if you take a high enough dose, the brain can't keep up with kicking it back out and so some stays in the brain. It will eliminate withdraw very effectively at high doses.

    Fentanyl at high doses is KNOWN to cause ventricular arrhythmias. Have you heard of people dying when they have surgery? Most have developed these heart arrhythmias after getting the IV fentanyl. There have been several documented cases of ventricular tachycardia and ventricular fibrillation which are pulseless arrhythmias after people take loperamide. Yes, this means the person is dead. Check out my thread or Roaddog's thread for the specific studies.

    Loperamide is lipophilic. This means as you take it it builds up in your fat. Once it reaches a critical value, the heart problems start. My educated guess (I am a health care provider) tell me a safe dose is PROBABLY around 17 pills which is double the dose on the bottle. Anything above that most certainly will stop withdrawals but it could also stop your heart.

    I did use them to taper but I specifically placed myself on drugs that reduce the risk of these arrhythmias. I then tapered fast and hard and jumped to kratom. I then tapered kratom and stepped off.

    I hope this helps. I am not trying to scare anyone. I just want you to be truly informed of the risks. Good luck with your taper and jump. Sobriety is worth the hurt. Wish you the best.
     
  20. Mr Bumble

    Mr Bumble Grumpy Gorilla Silver Member

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    Just wanted to ad my to cents
    Lope will not cause constipation any worse than any other opiate, infact it's one of the weak anti diarrhea medications. when lope doesnt work for the shit docs may prescribe codeine mixture or even kalin and morphine. so don't worry about getting backed up, especially as you already on opiates.

    I've found many posts on hee explaining how to make it cross the BBB so why beat about the bush in this section? I'd post but I'd probablt get slammed with bad rep