Oral use - Vin Mariani ingredients / ratios ? (Coca Wine)

Discussion in 'Coca' started by Benga, Sep 27, 2005.

  1. Benga

    Benga Platinum Member & Advisor

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    hello all


    reading up online, Vin Mariani, the product,the story, the man and his art collection, advertising and endorsement etc etc...


    Does any know however, how the dring was made ? couldn't find it online. Apparently it could be a maceration of leavesin red wine, which is how, coca wines are made (if anyone's interested, i have a recipe from a 1926 french pharmaceutical codex which i found in a bookstore, fortified wine, elixir, liqour). But considering the percentages of active ingredient given, it seems unlikely.


    Spiked with HcL ? unlikely from what i've been reading


    there's also a mention of "coca extract". Some recipes for "fuid extract" of coca can be found online, but they are unlikely to be very strong...


    So what was in "Vin Mariani" folks ? how was this world famous coca wine -which-is-said-to-have-inspired-others-including-a-syrup-whi ch-became-a-soft-drink manufactired by our corsican friend ?


    hum...
     
  2. Nargyle

    Nargyle Palladium Member

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    Today I was handed a letter by one of the leprechauns that live in my garden and this is what it said:

    "I had my fun and my distress a while back with cocaine, and have come to respect both the fun and distress that inevitably accompanies it. After doing a bit of research on coca, and after finding that natural coca does not carry the same dangers as refined cocaine, I bought a box of 100g Mate de Coca for. In the two week wait that followed, I did a bit more research on cocaine pharmacology and found that cocaine, in the presence of alcohol, forms another psychoactive compound in the liver and kidneys: cocaethylene. More research on cocaethylene revealed that the effects are more profound per milligram dosage, and also much longer lasting, as well as producing a slightly different high. More research revealed that 2g of coca leaf per ounce of wine would yield 4-8 milligrams of cocaine per ounce of wine. It is important to note here that street cocaine is often very adulterated (cut), so while 250 to 300 milligrams does not sound like much, it is probably the equivalent of .5-1 gram of common street cocaine. Once I finally received the Windsor, I got a 1.5 liter bottle of Carlo Rossi and went to work!

    My main interest in this experiment was to see if there was some way to avoid all the pain of “the day after”. I saved 25 of the 1-gram tea bags in case there was a bad come down, to see if drinking the tea would ease the pain of cocaine withdrawal. 75 1-gram tea bags were placed in a Tupperware pitcher, and immersed in wine, soaked for 2-3 hours, and then the fun began! Note that is a little less than 2g/ounce of wine as stated above; it converts to 1.5g/ounce.

    16:00- I drink the first glass wine. No detectable change.

    16:30- I drink the second glass of wine. No change.

    17:15- I drink a third glass. No change, I started thinking maybe the tea was de-cocainized, but also note that I would normally be feeling a buzz from three drinks, and I really felt sober like I hadn’t been drinking at all.

    18:00- I decided to grab a bunch of the soaked teabags, and squeeze the wine out of them and into my glass over the pitcher to avoid spilling. I drink the fourth glass.

    18:10- Bang-Zoom! Feeling Good! I got to thinking that I had always heard of coca leaves being chewed, and I believe part of the extraction process of cocaine uses a press. I have to say, there was a definite difference, and anyone who would attempt to make Vin Mariani, should definitely find a way to squeeze or press the leaves or teabags to get all the active ingredients out. There is a plethora of possible explanations for why this is, and I cannot definitively explain it at this time, but the squeezing or pressing of the soaked leaves or teabags is a definite must.

    20:30-the next morning: From here on out I sponged up the wine with the teabags and squeezed out glasses of Vin Mariani. Definitely a good high. Far more subtle than snorting cocaine, and at the same time still intense. A very smooth up, a very steady high and a very smooth comedown. The roller coaster of sniffing coke every 45 minutes or so was nonexistent. The sexual arousal that accompanies cocaine (“Woe to you my princess…”) was present, goose bumps, elevated body temperature and heart rate were also present. The subtlety of the Vin Mariani I would attribute to the route of ingestion as well as the presence of the other cocaine-related alkaloids that naturally occur in the coca leaf. Nature put together the coca leaf, and I have no doubt that by extracting and isolating only the cocaine, you are essentially removing many helpful and desirable compounds.

    There was no dramatic crash or comedown, but sleep initially proved difficult. There was no intense Jones after awaking or in the days that followed, but there was a desire to do it again. Still a very successful experiment, and the teabags I saved to ease the Jones were unnecessary. The Vin Mariani is by far the best way I’ve found to enjoy cocaine, and I would recommend it to anyone who likes to use cocaine but doesn’t want all negative side effects, high cost, or frequent administrations that accompany powdered cocaine use. I would still say that despite the fact that this is definitely a less addictive way to use cocaine, the potential is still there for abuse."
     
    1. 4/5,
      thanks for the report
      Jul 16, 2008
  3. Benga

    Benga Platinum Member & Advisor

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    after research and experiments since the original 2005 post, one thing is sure with these cocaine ratios and equivalences : they don't really mean anything for two main reasons :
    the nature of the coca full spectrum akaloid makeup changes the effects of whatever cocaine is in the leaves.
    coca chewing using an alkali creates an in-vivo freebase reaction, which is absorbed into the blood stream through the mouth's mucous lining. This does not happen with oral coca, the mechanism is quite different (and less efficient).
    the leaves here are commercial bolivian leaves, which have a different alkaloid makeup than peruvian leaves. subjective effects ("chewed") are different, but it is hard to tell if this is not linked to the leave's quality. Of the bolivian brands tested, this one felt like the mildest.

    coca wines / alcohol are still interesting, and have an intersting euphoriant psychoactivity, but usually much milder than what would expect from such "cocaine ratio" calculations.
    Coca, even when chewed, does have a slightly sedative effect inside the overall stimulation. this is also true of coca wines / alcohols, yet there is a pleasant warm euphoriant note. Cocaethylene is part of the picture, and in this case, luckily so, as coca drinks, though healthy and pleasant, are really not that fun.


    more info and recipes here
    https://drugs-forum.com/threads/11718

    it is very likely that actual vin marian contained extracted cocaine, not just a coca extract, as quite a few of the commercial "coca wines" and syrups ( Pemberton's....) did by the end of the 19th century. This is strongly hinted at by the description of the wine's effects ( wine, and alcohol, remains a depressant, and coca, even when concentrated, isn't that strong of a stimulant), and also by historical data such as the supposed "boosting of the cocaine contents" to 7mg per fluid ounce-which hints at extracted cocaine, not coca extracts. If Mariani was known to have imported coca leaves, it is also well known that actual extracted cocaine was used in drinks, and there is little reason to think that Mariani's coca wine was not really a cocaine wine like so many others.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  4. Benga

    Benga Platinum Member & Advisor

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    a peruvian winery (not the one that sells pisco extracts) has actually planned to market a coca wine called "vin mariani"...not the first one, but the use of the name of the famous corsican entrepreneur, rather than some Quechua / Andean sales pitch is a surprise ( especially since there is a large Mariani legacy in the art world). Business as usual...

    back to the original Vin Mariani and the coca or cocaine question :

    here's an imprecise snipet on the post-1906 American Medical Association investigation, also hitting at the actual extracted cocaine content (rather than a coca extract).
    it is rather clear that this "coca wine" was actually fortified (7.2mg per ounce) in extracted cocaine, especially after it began being imported to the USA. Then, as interest in cocaine related issues and the first food and drug and psychoactive regulations appeared, the cocaine content was lowered. A similar, though non-alcoholic story is that of the Mariani inspired "coca/cocaine syrup", Coca-Cola.

    "In 1891 Mariani began distributing it in the United States where it became immensely popular within a short period. It was said that many persons, including children became addicted to it, often with serious consequences. It drew the attention of the authorities after the passage of the 1906 Food and Drug Act. The American Medical Association examined both the substance and the literature distributed by the manufacturers.
    In response to criticism about the product containing cocaine they began to deceive the public about the true contents claiming Vin Mariani was not a cocaine preparation.
    After the passage of the Pure Food and Drug Act made it a crime to lie about the contents the label indicated that each ounce represents on tenth of one grain of cocaine.
    The examination by the AMA indicated that the product was a combination of red wine, presumable imported from Bordeaux and fortified in this country by an alcoholic preparation of "coca leaves or others parts of the coca plant" ( whereas only coca leaves contain active alkaloids)
    The AMA investigation showed how the company changed no only their label, but the contents of the mixture itself.
    A sample purchased prior to 1905 showed about 8 ½% of the cocaine extract and 10% alcohol whereas a sample purchased at a later date had only a 2.2 % of the extract and a 16% alcohol content."

    and another : "the company for years claimed the product did not contain cocaine but a note in the February 1915 Druggist Circular says, "Vin Mariani, a coca wine extensively recommended by the medical profession, bore upon its label the statement that "Vin Mariani is not a cocaine preparation"; but on the passage of the act (1906 Food and Drug Act) after a hurried change of the label all over the country by its proprietors, it became a preparation of which "each ounce represents one-tenth of one grain of cocaine."



    here's an original Vin Mariani USA flyer stating the cocaine weight "equivalent".
     

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  5. gadjo55

    gadjo55 Newbie

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    Re: Vin Mariani some more infos from France


    Hi
    I'm a french "drug documentation addict"
    Specially interestedffor Mariani Wine like. I have done some research about and find some rare and interesting information about Mariani Wine.
    At the beginning (around 1880) he put abound 60 g or coca leafs and a certain amount of cocaine hydrochrolide in one liter or mostly Bordeaux Wine and some (unknown) spices.
    Until 1906, the US formula was a bit stronger than the european formula: 4-6 mg per ounce for Euoppe andf 6-8 mg for America.
    After 1907 Mariani decocainized his leafs and the Wine became much weaker. And after 1929 the Mariani company mixed the wine with only "coca tintcture" or coca spirit witch contains only few tracks of cocaine. This wine called "tonique Mariani" after 1954 was available until 1964.


    There is a big testimony documentation and many allusions in articles duriont the "belle époque" around 1900 and there is never never any alcoolic intoxication mentionned and some artists in the Marani albums say's that Mariani Wine makes not drunk. And durint this hysterical anti drug hygienic times never any doctor mentionned abuse of Mariani Wine. this is very interesting.
    swim tried to make some Mariani substitute for myself but I never use big quantities. I Use it only for a little stimulation and euphoria , mostly for working and sometimes for socializing . It's very helpful and lasts much onger than a cocaine powder line and there is never a coming down or a depresssion. The max I took was maybe 3 glasses in one day wich means maybe a max of 20 to 30 mg a or cocaine in each glass. (really sufficient for us) Wer are few serious (all in there fifties or sixties) persons who try to find a way to provide our old days with this powerful and healthy way to gain little more energy and euphoria

    There is a funy thing to mention. It is as swim get some subtil signs for not take more. All the cells of one's body and brain feel that if one cross this amount it will be too much and I will to regret.
    It's also interesting to discover that there are no major or serious reports of coca abuse in serious scientific documentation.

    Its very hard in France to get not decocainized coca and mostly if you ordered in Peru or bolivia it is seized by customs but tyhe owner has generally no problems for small amounts below one kg opf leaves.

    (sorry for my bad english)
     

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  6. aroidgrower

    aroidgrower Silver Member

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    Possible Vin mariani recipe locating leads?

    While doing a search using a popular search engine I used the search criteria "coca tea drug testing". One of the first few results of that search was a web page dealing with a derivative of the coca plant. I was curious and read all of the 15 plus pages and among them was some very interesting information about Vin Mariani. This information included the names of famous people of that time who enjoyed this drink and some of them ( very influential people at the time ) recommended this drink to the people who knew them.

    I was wondering if direct quotes from this page are allowed here without citing the source as I don't want to break forum rules by citing the link to this page.

    although I hasn't had the chance to do any further research I was wondering if doing an exhaustive search on the writings of the famous people cited might reveal the recipe for Vin Mariani.
     
  7. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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  8. Benga

    Benga Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: Possible Vin mariani recipe locating leads?

    you can copy and paste things as long as you acknowledge the original author-
    and no links to other forums

    i'm merging this thread with this one on exactly the same subject

    Vin Mariani ingredients / ratios ? (Coca Wine)

    and as Jasim pointed out this one Coca alcohol / alcoholic drinks (wines, liquors, etc...) has more info on homemade coca wines.

    as previously mentioned, the original patent is probaly still in some archives in Paris. It's also likely that vin mariania started out as a coca (leaf) wine and was then spiked with cocaine HCl to reach the potency it's North American competitors
    did you read the (DF) coca wiki ? I remember going into quite a few details about this :

    it's here Cocaand this section might be of particular interest :


     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  9. aroidgrower

    aroidgrower Silver Member

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    Thank you Benga for the clarification about citing other online material. Unfortunately I cannot post the information in question because there is no author mentioned. That information may or may not be accurate.

    My hope in bringing this up is that there may in fact be a recipe for vin mariani online. Given the prominence of the people cited at this particular web site I mentioned it may be possible that Mariani shared his earlier recipe with them before any cocaine was added for competition purposes because of their importance in the daily culture of the time.

    I must note that this web site I speak of, although there is no hint on the first few pages, is a site that has links for various products and is not a strictly informational site even though there seems to be accurate information and a brief historical overview of the coca leaf through history.

    I will re-read the threads you mention here, I'm sure I didn't remember all of it.
     
  10. nagast

    nagast Silver Member

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    Re: Vin Mariani some more infos from France

    60g dried leaves in one liter is a lot, it means about 0.3 g alkaloids in one liter!
    This would give a really disgusting wine after filtering, so spices were certainly much needed to make it drinkable.
    Perhaps there was also some sugar added with spices.
     
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  11. Pino

    Pino Gold Member

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    I have bought a liqour (30% alcohol) with 40 grams of cocaleaves in them. Which tasted good and had effect. (Experience report will be following). There was anise in it and a vague flavour of mint. Almost liquorice taste. Sugar content must be high (tasted quite sweet). Effect (1 glass, 0.2 cl) is coca leaf like, only more euphoric.

    It didn't have the particularly coca taste, so it could be an extract which is dissolved into alcohol.

    I thought liquor meant it is added later. It is not wine, I know, but I think this can be helpful.
     
  12. rawbeer

    rawbeer Gold Member

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    Sounds like Agwa de Bolivia. The coca leaf is just flavoring. It has green tea, ginseng and guarana in it. NO COCAINE ALKALOIDS. It is de-cocainized, just like the coca leaves in Coca-Cola.

    It's made in Amsterdam. The effects you feel are from the above mentioned stimulants, not coca.
     
  13. Pino

    Pino Gold Member

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    Ah that is a shame. (You are correct). Oh well the bottle is nice.
     
  14. remguy

    remguy Newbie

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    Well thanks for all the tips... going to try and piece this formula back together: coca leaf, Kola nut and maybe some champagn? if anyone wants to take a shot at it googl pijamacafe.