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TEK - Volumetric measuring of RC's - a pictorial

Discussion in 'Research Chemicals' started by Terrapinzflyer, Nov 25, 2009.

  1. Terrapinzflyer

    Terrapinzflyer MDMA, RC & News Forums Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    May 10, 2009
    from U.S.A.
    This is intended as a general guide to volumetric measurement techniques. The example(s) given may or may not fit swiy's specific needs. Once the basic principles are understood adjustments can be made to fit specific needs.

    The tools You will need.
    A good scale
    a liquid measuring cup, graduated cylinder, syringe with ml markings or the like
    A small funnel
    small glass bottles with eye dropper. Alternately use a measuring pipette.
    liquid for dilution- ethanol, high proof alcohol, water
    measuring spoons
    sharpie / permanent marker
    paper and pen/pencil

    some common measurements and conversions:
    measuring spoons:
    -1/4 teaspoon (TSP)= 1.25ml
    -1/2 Teaspoon (TSP)= 2.5ml
    -1 Teaspoon (TSP) = 5ml
    - 1 Tablespoon (TSB) = 15ml

    -if using a syringe or other device graduated in CC. 1cc=1ml

    1 gram (g) = 1000 milligrams (mg)
    1 milligram (mg) = 1000 micrograms (mcg)

    There are many online conversion calculators available- a simple search should turn up quite a few.

    Turtle highly recommends sticking with increments of "10" as it offers less chance for confusion

    You should mark the bottles in some way- this avoids confusion while doing this and is vitally important if they are stored. You may think they will remember whats what, especially if there are differences in the bottles- but DON"T TRUST swiy's memory!

    The three most common sizes of dropper bottles hold approximately 30ml, 60ml, and 120ml. their corresponding droppers hold (very) approximately .5ml, 1.25ml, and 2ml respectively. On average one will get 20 drops per ml. All these numbers are ~very~ approximate and will vary on a number of factors. It is up to You to confirm the capacities of the tools they are using.

    Turtle highly recommends a written "cheat sheet" of all measurements involved, including dilutions You is aiming for to prevent any confusion.

    There are 3 main reasons for volumetric dilution of a substance.
    1) diluting a substance down to a safe range for use below the capacity of available scale.
    2) diluting a substance down to a safe range below a threshhold dosage to test for adverse reactions
    3)diluting a substance down to a low microgram dose to test that it is not a much more powerful substance then believed- ie , the recent bromo-dragonfly mislabeled as 2c-b-fly debacle.
    The basic principles are the same for all of these.

    This is an old Mettler AE-163 . This is a laboratory grade scale. While scales in this range are very expensive new, they can be had for $300-$500 on auction sites and at auctions in some cities. Most manufactures and some commercial scale shops will give them a solid once over and callibration for $250 +/-. These are very accurate scales with an incredible range- if you have one of these you probably won't need this tutorial.

    This is a cheap milligram scale $100+/- . Good enough for a known substance active in the 100mg +/- range. Dangerous to rely on for substances active below 100mg. This is the most common range of scales for swimmers, hence this tutorial.


    Photo of calibration weights and a calibration weight certification sheet. Calibration weights are divided into classes depending on how precise they are. Calibration weights should never be handled with bare hands- always use tweezers or surgical gloves. They should also be stored protected.

    So, for the first example, [​IMG]
    - 100mg of substance "Y"

    so in this picture
    we pour it in to the bottle. Always pour in the substance first- that way any remants get washed in with the liquid.

    Then in picture :
    we add the premeasured liquid- in this case 50ML.

    So in this example we end up with a solution of 2mg (2000mcg) per ml. Thus individual drops will be (very) roughly 100mcg per drop. For many substances that You is sure of what they are, this will be enough.

    For unknown substances, or those active in the microgram range, furthur dilution will be needed. Cap and shake the solution, then check it is fully dissolved and no sediment is settled to the bottom or floating on top. Heating the bottle GENTLY , such as with a lighter, can aid in complete dissolving of the substance.

    Using a dropper, transfer one drop to a fresh bottle. This is approximately 1/20th of a ml, or approximately 100mcg. Slowly add 9 more drops of fresh/virgin liquid. In total you will have approx 1/2 ML of liquid, at a strength of 10mcg. Adding an additional ten drops of fresh/virgin liquid would bring the solution to 5 micrograms.

    Turtle recommends having an extra eyedropper handy if You is not using a graduated pipette or syringe. Fill a glass or bottle and fill and empty the dropper several times, paying attention to how high it naturally wants to fill. Then fill it one more time and using a sharpie or other permanent marker, mark a spot near the top level.
    NOTE: This is for measuring only. storing a marked dropper, especially in an alcohol based solution, risks the mark bleeding out into the solution. While this is unlikely to affect the substance, it would be adding unwanted, and potentially toxic, substances.

    Now, lay out a measuring spoon, fill the dropper to the mark and expel the liquid (slowly) into the spoon.
    This will give You an idea how much the dropper holds. If You only has a larger size spoon then this might need to be repeated. Simpe math will then tell you how much the dropper holds. IE: 4 droppers full to the mark fills a 1 TSP spoon then the dropper holds 1.25 ml to the mark.

    Remember- cheap scales are not precise. Use extra caution. Likewise- kitchen measuring tools, cheap, student grade labware, eyedroppers- they are all less then 100% accurate. Err on the side of caution at all times.

    A note on the liquid used.

    Turtle usually uses "Grain Alcohol". If water is used he recommends distilled water- the chlorine in tap water can kill LSD - the turtle can not say if it has a negative effect on any other substances.
    And remember- shake, shake, shake. You wants the solution fully dissolved and evenly distributed. If there is sediment on the bottom of the jar do NOT use until it is equally dissolved. If substance will not fully dissolve either increase the amount of liquid or apply gentle heat (as with a lighter to the bottom of the jar, or placing the bottle in a warm water bath), or if all else fails, start over with another solvent.

    Also worth noting- knowing whether the substance is the freebase or HCL salt form can help determine which liquid to use:
    This was stolen from another members post (Cegli)-

    Turtle would be eternally grateful if someone knowledgeable would proofread this and check for mathematical / factual mistakes. He really does not want to be responsible for someones "accident" because he missed something here
    This has been a work in progress since the 2c-b-fly debacle, done in fits and starts - so will likely need some editing before its "final"
  2. Nnizzle

    Nnizzle Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    Oct 4, 2007
    27 y/o from earth
    Just a thought... my dog assumes SWIT penchant for using grain alcohol as the solvent for most drugs is ethanol's ability so dissolve many substances that dH2O might not... if this isn't the case please let my dog know, he has always wondered this. Anyway, my dog says that it is important to note that if perhaps opiates such as fentanyl (ie a drug that is active at very low doses like LSD) which are CNS depressants are being diluted, it would be inadvisable to use ethanol as the solvent as this could be a dangerous combination depending on how dilute ones solution is. In addition perhaps some talk about what drugs are soluble in which common solvents would be a good idea, just in case... although as this tutorial is based mostly on RC's, hopefully one who is using this tutorial would have some knowledge of these sorts of things already...
    Just my dog's 2 barks.
    Great tutorial though... my dog thinks math, organization, and precautions like this should always be a part of recreational drug use.
  3. mopsie

    mopsie Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    Apr 14, 2005
    from Brazil
    Good information
  4. Terrapinzflyer

    Terrapinzflyer MDMA, RC & News Forums Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    May 10, 2009
    from U.S.A.
    sorry I missed this before.

    Generally speaking Freebase forms are generally not very water soluble, while the salt generally is. If one knows the form they have they are free to choose alcohol or DH2O. If in doubt alcohol is the safer choice.

    Also the turtles aardvark prefers alcohol in most cases as it seems to be better for long term storage of any left over amount- less likelihood of mold or any other nasties forming then with water, and won't freeze solid if stored in the freezer.

    Another general rule related to storage, which ancedotal reports indicate is especially true with many of the tryptamines, is that the hcl salt form is generally more stable then the freebase.

    Also worth noting that with the increased popularity of the synthetic cannabinoids we have seen increasing reports of the use of propylene glycol instead of alcohol or water.
  5. Stimulants

    Stimulants Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    Jan 22, 2009
    from earth
    Something I would add to this. In analytical chemistry, common procedure is to wash down the weighing pan and into the bottle. At 100mg, the loss could be well over 1% in residue stuck to the pan. Here, it would result in reduction in yield. In analytical chemistry it would result in an error.

    Unless portability is of uttermost importance, it is not always necessary to use high solubility solvent. 1mg to 100ml would be considered "practically insoluble" in general chemistry, however if the dosage is in the fractional mg range, this is perfectly fine. Plain water is best avoided as even the slightest organic contamination will lead to microbiological spoilage.

    Vodka works well as diluent. If for some reason alcohol is unacceptable for whatever reason, something like Propel zero flavored water(USA brand) is a good medium, because it is preserved with potassium sorbate and/or benzoates, though the efficacy of preservation is still not quite as good as vodka.

    If it absolutely must be contained into a small volume, but the substance is not soluble in aqueous based solvent, a harmful highly volatile solvent such as chloroform can be used. The dosage would be allowed to soak into a medium such as toilet paper and left to stand to allow the solvent to evaporate. The paper can then be consumed. The consumption of a small amount of paper is not harmful.
  6. somnitek

    somnitek Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    Jul 28, 2011
    from U.S.A.
    Just what is the possibility of room for error here? I have a friend whose waiting on the delivery of 2C-P. We're trying to scrape together the money for a proper analytical scale, but ...Sometimes other things come-up more immediately demanding. Neither of us really have any real experience handling compounds this active. I considered that volumetric measuring might be a stop-gap solution, and besides, I've convinced him to shelve the product, upon arrival, until some more concrete answers can be gained. There's no big hurry to dose this compound either, but knowing whether or not the possibility exists that some unforeseen, and or complicating factor, could pose serious risk was reason enough.
  7. hookedonhelping

    hookedonhelping Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    Dec 11, 2010
    from earth
    Would povidone and polyvinyl alcohol have any stabilizing features?
  8. xiaobendan

    xiaobendan Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    Jan 15, 2011
    from ireland
    Afoaf will soon obtain 25i-NBOMe. He is very worried about dosing accurately because this is a very potent chem.

    He has recently forked out a good bit of money for a 0.001gram scale. Now when he doses his aMT, sometimes the scales reading can change from say 150mg up to 151mg or down to 149mg. This margin of error is no issue with aMT but with 25iNBOMe it would be an issue.

    He doesn't really trust using drops from blotter bottles, it seems a bit like guessing.

    He will obtain the HCL salt form of the chem but still worries about solubility so he's gonna use 80 proof vodka to dissolve it.

    His idea is 10mg of 25i-NBOMe dissolved into 30ml of vodka. He can then use a ml pipet to drop one ml doses onto dry sugar lumps that will then contain 333ug of the chem. Even if the scale reads 10mg but there is really 12mg on the scale, his sugar lumps will still only contain 400ug of the substance. This is a reasonable margin of error.

    Anybody got any imput on this idea?

    Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

    He isn't going to rush into doing this, he has other toys to play with. He's gonna do a lot of research before he makes the jump.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2012
  9. joefear

    joefear Silver Member

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    Jan 18, 2013
    from earth
    afoaf stated that they have obtained 10mg of substance? get a bottle, empty 10mg into bottle, then drop 100 drops of vodka in your package to collect residual compound. then, take that 100 drops to your bottle. dosage will be 100mcg/drop :p