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Opinions - What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting too

Discussion in 'Opium & Poppy' started by heroin_ed, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. heroin_ed

    heroin_ed Newbie

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    I have looked and looked but has not found a definitive answer. His question is this: What are the 5 best strains of the opium poppy and why? Which strains give the most opium yield? Which strains give the most potent yield? Thanks in advance for all of you's answers.

    UPDATE:
    I found and bought some hungarian blue papaver somniferum seeds. Please tell SWIM this is a good strain. Also, SWIM looked at some lights for planting indoors. The garden shop had both incandescent bulbs and fluorescent tubes priced at $9.99, will both work? I remember people he knew buying plant lights that cost around $250 so he is a little wary about the efficacy of the cheapy plant lights.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  2. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Palladium Member

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    1] Tasmanian purple.
    2] Burma White.
    3] Indian White.
    4] Afghani.
    6] Hens and Chicks.

    The top will always be Tasmanian purple. Its morphine to alkaloid ratio is 30%, hard to beat. I have never heard of the Hungarian blue.

    Peace :)
     
  3. heroin_ed

    heroin_ed Newbie

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    Thanks for the reply, I have googled and looked everywhere over the net and can't find anything about alkaloid content of the Hungarian blue strain. Any others out there with info on this damn Hungarian blue strain and/or the question on lighting?

    In case anybody wonders why I am so worried about the Hungarian blue strain is because he heard that there are strains of papaver somniferum that have like, .5%-1% morphine content and he doesn't feel like putting his heart and soul into growing these things only to find out that it was a waste of time, he has no credit or debit card so can't buy off the net and the only thing around where he lives is Hungarian blue. And considering that he was able to purchase it at his local gardening center he is just a little paranoid that it will have low alkaloid content.

    The company who manufactures it is Botanical Interests and the packaging says "Poppy bread seed" and "Heirloom" on it. I don't know if that means anything he just wants answers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009
  4. joshua666

    joshua666 Newbie

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    U can order off the net without a credit card,try cod or money order,theres alot of places that only take paypal but there are still some that take the above payments...
     
  5. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Palladium Member

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    cheap lights are cheap for a reason. One gets exactly what they pay for generally.
    HID lights are the best. Probably an agricultural HPS lamp with extended blue spectrum.

    Peace :)
     
  6. heroin_ed

    heroin_ed Newbie

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    Thanks for all the info so far guys. Anybody got any info on the hungarian blues?
     
  7. Phentasies

    Phentasies Newbie

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    SWIM's grown what were likely Tasmanian Giganthemums, and Persian Whites.

    The tazzie gigs had white flowers with 4 dark purple swipes in them and the petals would fall off within just 24 hours of appearing. swim's largest plant produced 36 or 37 pods, with the "crown pods" being the size of a tennis ball. The foliage was moderate to dark green. These plants had very large leaves, the largest leaf was 10 inches in width at its widest point. The stalks of the pods had "hair" or soft-spikes on them. When they got mature the part of the leaves closest to the stalk developed a powdery-blue/lavender "haze" or frosting on them that could be wiped off with your finger. They also would develop a tourquoisey ring just below the pods crown during maturation, once this ring faded and was no longer visible or very faint, they are ready for harvest.

    When lanced, they secreted either a white or light brown latex that would then dry into a moderate to dark brown material.


    swim's persian whites never got more than 5 or 6 pods per plant. The flowers were a yellow-white cream color, with no swipes, and would remain on the plant for 7-10 days before falling off. However, flower color has NO relevance to the strain. If you have TRUE persian whites, they will have a white frosting or "haze" on ALL of the foliage, pods, and stalks, THIS is how you know its a persian white. The stalks of the pods had no hair/spikes on them.

    When lanced, they secreted a light pink (muave) colored latex and would then dry into a dark-maroon colored material.


    You cannot identify a strain by its flower colors. This has no relation to anything, it really doesnt.

    The way to identify giganthemums (and hybrids) aside from the large pod size (tennis ball sized crown-pods), is:

    - Hairs/spikes on the stalks of the pods (not the plants trunk/branches)
    - A tourqoise ring forms just under the crown of the pod when its maturing and disappears/fades when theyre ready for harvest
    - A blue haze/frosting forming at the inner-end of the leaves during mid-growth


    The way to identify persian whites (and hybrids);

    - A white frosting/haze over the entire plants foliage/leaves, stalks, pods, etc.
    - When lanced, secretes a light pink (muave) colored latex that then dries into a dark-maroon material.



    For sheer quantity of latex, gigs are the way to go. If you grow them right, you should be getting over 30 pods per plant over its lifetime. Potency wise, its virtually impossible to tell the difference between the ones swim grew, opiums so weak as is its very hard to guage any potency differences.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2009
  8. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Palladium Member

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    That is a Misnomer . .
    They are not gigs, that is just what Tasmanian Purple is. It is the stabilized strain used for the medical industry from Tasmania, a small island at the bottom of Australia.
     
  9. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Palladium Member

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    Um . . .yea thanks for calling SWIM ignorant.
    If one was inclined to have a look one would see exactly what SWIM means and that he KNOWS what he is talking about.

    I did not assume anything. . . .
    I said that the Tasmanian GIGS was a Misnomer (mis-named) because there is no such thing as Tasmanian gigs unless someone else has bred them (doubtful) and just decided to call them that.

    SWIM constantly grows Tasmanians and they are exactly as You has described. And since You says that they are Tasmanian then logically that is what they would be. So unfortunately it is not SWIM whom is ignorant. . . but perhaps other people whom read more into a statment than is actually there.

    Remember I am here to help and was only trying to offer information which may have helped You understand what You has more completely. Tasmanian Purple is actually one of the best varieties to have. And if someone else has bred it personally and called it that just for the hell of it, then I do concede that he is incorrect. However if they are known to be Tasmanians, and just Tasmanians, then Tasmanian Purple is what they are because Tasmanian Gigs are not a known or established variety.

    Please read up on all of the Papaver Somniferum Botany, selective breeding, genetics, Opium production and General information I have provided. He would not intentionally steer ANYONE on this forum wrong.

    Peace :)
     
  10. Phentasies

    Phentasies Newbie

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    It is ignorant to say you KNOW something is such and such strain, cause theres no way you can know that for certain or even remotely certain.

    You can read all the books you want. Its common misinformation that if a poppy has white seeds and white flowers than its a "persian white". Its rediculous.

    my more inclined to believe the name persian white is derived from the color of the foliage rather than the flower as my seen many photos of white-hazed foliage poppies with flowers in all colors of the rainbow.

    Most wouldnt realize that there are poppies with very white-haze covered foliage that is MUCH different from normal poppy foliage, unless theyve seen the two foliage colors side by side, then it becomes very apparent how white the foliage looks.


    Unless there is a classification guide somewhere that lists each strain name and then identifies each of the characteristics I listed that-that strain must have to truly be that claimed strain, theres no way anyone knows what any strain is.

    I dont believe for 1 second ANY supplier selling poppy seeds really knows the strain they have, unless they somehow traced back its unique cross-polination over thousands of years, they cant possibly know.

    Most just look at the color of the flower and say its such and such strain because it has a flower that color. This is rediculously misleading and serves no purpose other than to give people a feeling of "coolness" because they can say "Im growing AK-47-Bazooka-Boom-Boom strain, I feel so awesome".

    I have this same issue with marijuana strains. Whenever some dealer says "Ya this is _____ strain" SWIM just rolls eyes.


    And as to "gigs" or not "gigs", I believe a gig means nothing more than that any strain has been selectively bred to be as large as absolutely possible. Thus any strain thats been bred that way, is a "gig". my poppies grew rediculously huge, and would be as gigantic as a poppy can be.


    Note the foot long ruler dwarfed in the foliage in the bottom photo. This is just 2 "tasmanian giganthemums" plants before they began bolting, full vegetative state still. Notice how large the leaf on the right plant is compared to the ruler, thats 10 inches across in width at its widest point, if thats not "gig" then nothing is.

    Also for others heres some latex comparison shots between "persian white" (left) and "tasmanian giganthemum" (right).

    The other photo shows maturation "ring" identification for knowing when to harvest. Ring only existed on the "tasmanian giganthemum" strain, the "persian whites" have no ring that forms and fades.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Phentasies

    Phentasies Newbie

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    SWIM also forgot to add another defining characteristic in poppies.

    Its apparent in the latex comparison photograph, notice the crown of the poppies. The "persian white" crown is smooth-edged and circular at the end, whereas the "tasmanian giganthemum" is jagged edged and square at the end.

    Phentasies added 35 Minutes and 41 Seconds later...

    Samurai,

    Is there any books out there that actually list all the "claimed" strains and provide a LIST of ALL (and more) of the characteristics ive listed and state which each of those strains has?

    Because if not, then I dont know how anyone can ever say they know what any strain is.


    Someone needs to take the time to grow many strains with a checklist of all the potential characteristics that can differ between poppies and develop an in-depth explanation of them.


    ALL the suppliers ive seen, im almost positive alls theyre doing when they say what strain theyre selling, is basing this on the color of the flower, which is absolutely rediculous.

    Flower will differe based on whatever its been crossed with over thosuands and thousands of years. You can have 5 different poppies each with the same flower color, yet each have other characteristics that are different, and thus, they are NOT the same strain, they might contain the same relative strains in their genetics, but somewhere along the line each got crossed with a different strain than the other that resulted in various characteristic differences. Yet 99% of ignorant fools will say theyre all the same strain cause they all have the same flower color.

    Hell, I dont even think 99% of poppy growers realize there are even 1/5th as many unique little characteristics as those I listed. For example I dont think many people know that certain strains of poppies will hold their petals longer than others, and if two poppies had the same flower color and everyother characteristic, but ones petals would falloff in just a day and the others wouldnt fall off for days or even weeks, that would be a strong indicator theyre not identical and have different genetics.

    my "tazzy gigs" would hold petals for just 24 hours, the longest was 48 hours. my "persian whites" would hold petals for at least 7 days, even in a strong breeze or heavy rain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2009
  12. Jonro

    Jonro Silver Member

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    Phentasies i don't know if your new round here or not but if anyone should know what a strain should look like or not it would be the samuraigecko. Read through his stickies and threads.
     
  13. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Palladium Member

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    Papaver Somniferum Botany and Selective breeding.
    Mauve Madness.
    These are just a smalll sample of my extensive knowledge. This is no "i just read a book" knowledge . . . This is 20 years of pratical experience and a Masters Degree in Org Bio. Please actually read those thinks, SWIyou WILL learn a lot.

    For Persian white that is extremely correct.

    Such classification guides do exist, SWIyou should search. Do SWIyou really think that governments would spend millions of dollars on breeding programs while working with something they are unsure on? One thinks not.

    Of course not, I have personally obtained every single stock he has FROM THE SOURCE. People whom read my posts will know that he goes overseas to do just this a couple of times a year. Seed suppliers will tell SWIyou what ever they want just to make a sale.

    SWIM mentioned earlier that Tasmanian Purple was names for its flesh not its flower.

    No they dont, what SWIyou described is typical for a Tassie.

    As SWIM mentioned this is normal for a Tassie, SWIyou gave it the misnomer. Tassies ARE A GIANT STRAIN IN MOST CASES, its just the NAME THAT youOU GAVE THEM IS A MISNOMER (I.e: SWIyou are the dealer who gave it the mysterious name in this case as SWIyou mentioned earlier) , It is simply a Tasmanian Purple as it should be NOT "super balls out alaskan thunderfuck mega skunk". Take a look at the other pictures of Tassies and SWIyou will see that this is typical size, even on the small side in some instances.

    After 20 years of growing and even being employed in the legal opium farming industry one is totally inclined to disagree with some points SWIyou make.

    Yes it is silly to assume something from one or two traits. SWIM IS NOT DOING THIS.
    Yes you cannot just assume that something is a china shite just because it has white petals SWIM IS NOT DOING THIS.

    I am merely making the statement that Tasmanian Gig is a misnomer because there is no such thing. Someone else has called it that just from standard Tassie stock.

    If something attains the Gigantum / Giganthum / Giganthenum / etc Name then it is because the pods are giant. Tasmanian Purple already has that as a trait as standard and is just called Tasmanian Purple. Some of the field grown Tasmanian purples are not even purple flowered. The name actually comes from the color of its tissue (which appears blue/purple from a distance).

    Stating that something is a misnomer from EXTREME previous knowledge and experience is not something to loose your undies over. As one mentioned one was merely trying to be of help. He will refrain from doing this for SWIyou in the future.

    One of my best friends is a biochemical engineer whom was on the breeding team for the Tasmanian Purple produced by a company called Tasmanian Alkaloids in conjunction with the C.S.I.R.O Australia. He also concedes that there is no variety called Tasmanian Gig. If SWIyou have called it that then it is either because someone else has called it that and youou ran with the name, Or SWIyou called it that SWIyourself because SWIyou think it has large pods. Believe SWIM that is not large for a Tasmanian, I have been growing Tassies and Burmans and Turks etc etc etc for OVER TWENTY YEARS GEURILLA GARDENING FROM THE LAW AND WORKING ON A LEGAL OPIUM FARM.

    From that people will decide which information is credible. I believe that this will be his information as he has NEVER steared anyone here wrong EVER.

    Thank SWIyou again for insulting SWIM. If you notice SWIM never reduced himself to having to insult anyone. . . .

    Anyhoo, this is all I have to say on this subject because obviously youou just dont understand the information.

    Peace and good luck with SWIyour "gigs".
    :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
  14. heroin_ed

    heroin_ed Newbie

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    Ok, thanks for arguing guys, listen all I want to know is if hungarian blues secrete legit opium. On package it looks like a typical poppy. Like he said before I have just heard from somebody that the government has made a strain to sell to people that have really shitty opium with like 1% morphine. On the package though it does say papaver somniferum and poppy bread seed. Will a SWIMMER out there please answer my question? Sombody as had to have heard of Hungarian blue before.


    nvm I found what he is looking for the hungarian blues are indeed legit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  15. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Palladium Member

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    If they are Somniferum then Yes.

    One would guess that a Hungarian blue is either the commercial strain of the country or derived from it. One does know that at one point the Hungarians were the leaders in the potent strain race, with a bit of luck that may be what SWIyou have.

    SWIM shall argue no more in SWIyour thread, he shall not even answer the other poster again if he comes. He was not in fact arguing though (in his mind), he was merely trying to point out a small mistake. This information was taken the wrong way by another.

    Peace :)
     
  16. minniet

    minniet Newbie

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    SWIM recalls reading that the Hungarian is a weak producer of goodies and was bred specifically for culinary use. He doesn't have any first hand experience with them tho.

    Min
     
  17. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko Palladium Member

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    my pet iguana did a little research and compiled this information from a number of websites and hard sources to help to contribute.

    Hungarian Blue: Papaver Somniferum L.

    Hungarian blue is indeed the commercial strain of Papaver Somniferum which used to be used for Medical grade Opium supplies.

    Hungarian Blue was tested to contain up to 20% Morphine to total alkaloid ratio. It was also known that this ratio was not entirely stable giving rise to the belief that the strain itself was not a stable breed.

    Hungarian Blue is supposed to be a stabilized commercial strain bred from "Persian Blue" and other Turkish / Middle Eastern stock.

    Hungarian Blue is named for the color of its flesh and not for its flower. It appears to be a very gray-blue and from a distance this effect is very pronounced and very dramatic when a whole field is viewed.

    Hungarian Blue genetically produces around 20% more seed per pod than other strains of Papaver Somniferum so it has now been moved to the food industry as the common "breadseed" found throughout Europe. In fact Hungarian Blue is prized for its seed because of the taste, smell and appearance of the seed itself, which is a slate gray with a slight blue tinge appearing a little frosted.

    Hungarian Blue was one of the strain suggested for alternate commercial stock for Brittan and its little "lets grow Opium at home" venture. (For those that dont know Brittan has been attempting to grow its own Opium now in designated areas of the country).

    Brittan wants to produce a strain of poppy which does not produce Morphine but does produce Thebaine in large quantities, Simmilar to what the C.S.I.R.O in Australia has been attempting (rather successfully unfortunately) with select stock from the Tasmanian Purple variety (still in experimental stages, but it will eventually happen). Hungarian Blue is one of the experimental cantidates for just such a strain.

    Peace :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  18. robshaka

    robshaka Silver Member

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    Phentasies:

    "Potency wise, its virtually impossible to tell the difference between the ones I grew, opiums so weak as is its very hard to guage any potency differences. "

    Do you mean Gig's opium is weak, or just opium in general?
     
  19. just curious

    just curious Newbie

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    My pet cat bought those seeds last year and they were exactly what she was looking for. ;)))))
     
  20. django47

    django47 Newbie

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    Re: What are the 5 best strains of papaver somniferum? Questions on indoor lighting t

    It's true, the Tazmanian is the best, I been surfin to find out myself and thats what they all recomend. If you aint got a card, cant you ask a friend to use theirs and give them the cash. Failing that you can google'Pre pay Mastercard'. I use to have the same problem and got a nice impressive looking gold mastercard. You use it like a credit/debit card but you must have money to cover transactions. I use to pay into any postoffice. Look up 'Cash Plus' and you can sort it online. It doesn't take long, plenty of time for you to plant your seeds. Hope that is helpful.