1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

Pharmacology - What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

Discussion in 'Heroin' started by Moving Pictures, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Titanium Member

    Age:
    28
    Reputation Points:
    4,200
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,992
    Okay, we all know that heroin number 3 is base heroin and heroin number 4 is heroin salt (usually hcl). But what is heroin #s 1 and 2? I read somewhere (can't remember) that heroin number 2 is unreacted morphine base or morphine hcl but I'm not even sure about that. And I have no idea what #1 heroin is.

    Does anyone know? I've searched this forum and google and found no information. I've acutally never heard of heroin #1 but I assume since there is a 2,3, and 4, there is a number 1.

    I don't know if this is a chem question or not but I decided to post it in the heroin section incase someone with the answers didn't have access to chem.

    Ideas and opinions are welcome but hard fact (with sources) would be great. They would really help.

    Thanks, guys.
     
  2. catseye

    catseye Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    3,971
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,218
    As far as I know, there isn't a no. 1 or no. 2 heroin oddly enough :s

    Technically speaking, I think no. 1 would be morphine, and have read somewhere along the line that no. 2 is heroin acetate but I'm not sure?
    Anyway, the 'numbers' apparently refer to the steps required to process:
    no. 3 is the freebase form, and needs the addition of citric acid to convert it into a salt, making it water soluble/suitable to inject.
    no. 4 is the salt form, so dissolves easily.

    I'll see if I can find a source...;)

    catseye added 12 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

    Just read this on another forum, and it sounds sensible.

     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011
  3. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Titanium Member

    Age:
    28
    Reputation Points:
    4,200
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,992
    Hmm, that's great info. I did not know that #3 was 40% caffeine. That's kinda shitty...

    So #2, heroin acetate, would that be like black tar heroin? What I heard is that tar is just acetaylized (sp) opium.

    edit, and so are UK users getting number 2 heroin instead? I always thought number 3 was base.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011
  4. catseye

    catseye Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    3,971
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,218
    I read that tar is no. 4...but that would imply tar was ideal for injecting, which it isn't...so I'm confused about that one!

    Western Europe including the UK gets no. 3. When you acetylate morphine you create heroin acetate (no. 2). If you add water and calcium carbonate it becomes heroin no. 3 I think?
    arrgh...its too damn confusing, lol :rolleyes:

    I'm determined to find a definitive answer now cos y'all have got me thinking about this ;)
     
  5. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Titanium Member

    Age:
    28
    Reputation Points:
    4,200
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,992
    But if heroin number 2 is H-acetate or base, then that is what Euro users are getting. If it was number 3 (h-hcl and caffiene) it would disolve in water without acid. Only a base won't disolve in water without acid.

    This is getting pretty chem heavy and a lot of it is out of my league but I have a basic understanding of acids and bases. Heroin acetate is a heroin salt. It would disolve in water on it's own. You could basify it with lime or w/e but if that report is correct, it would still be heroin #2.

    Now heroin base would be fine for smoking (vaping actually) but heroin hcl isn't ideal for it because it doesn't run well and can eaisly be snorted or shot. But mixing heroin hcl with caffeine would make it easier to smoke cus caffeine is supposed to make it run better. BUT #3 would still be able to disolve in water without acid. Unless the caffeine wasn't a salt but even so, it would just drop out and you'd get just heroin.

    Confusing indeed.
     
  6. Topman

    Topman

    Reputation Points:
    60
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    201
    Many users add acid without any thinking or even why, so if swiy did not try to dissolve H without acid nobody can be certant is it base or salt.
     
  7. Terrapinzflyer

    Terrapinzflyer MDMA, RC & News Forums

    Reputation Points:
    5,657
    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    7,610
    Does anyone know how "crack Heroin" compares to the normal grades seen in the west?

    It appears to be more or less limited to the middle east. (possibly parts of SE Asia as well)

    It turns up in quite a few news stories out of Iran and surrounding countries...

    From one of the reports:
    Anyone know more about this, how it compares to western heroin, or why it seems limited to a small arab region....?
     
  8. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Titanium Member

    Age:
    28
    Reputation Points:
    4,200
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,992
    ^^ Here's a post about it from an Irainian member.

    It seems to just be really compact pressed base heroin.
     
  9. mickey_bee

    mickey_bee Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,397
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,007
    Thing's have definetly changed since that 70's DEA structuring, as they claim H3 is simply H4 mixed with caffeine - which it isn't, H3 base has to undergo further refining to become the salt form H4.

    As far as swim knows, H1+2 are terms relating to the production of pure heroin. I.e. In order to produce H4, H3 must first be produced. Swim would guess that H1 + 2 would be something like morphine base and heroin acetate, or opium to morphine base - there's alot of stages and refining processes in the production of H3 and H4 - and the production of the two are essentially identical up until the final stage where H3 undergoes further refining and becomes H4.

    But swim isn't certain, he just knows they broadly refer to steps in the refinement of heroin, from either opium or morphine base level, up to H4.

    Swim also read that black tar heroin wasn't applicable to this scale, as it uses a different manufacturing process than the other types of heroin, and is essentially a very crude form of heroin, with high amounts of other opiates, besides actual diacetylmorphine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  10. kasbeq

    kasbeq Palladium Member

    Reputation Points:
    603
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2009
    Messages:
    299
    This is a letter delivered in a dream


    I could be wrong but I was always under impression that number
    1 is morphine base(the base that is created after calcium carbonate and amonia are thrown in diluted opium to precipitate morphine)
    2 is brown heroin base( when acetic anhydride and sodium carbonate is added)
    3 is white heroin base( although not really white in color more leaning towards amber, this is the stuff that you find in European cities, and its created when number 2 is further processed by adding hydrochloric acid,activated carbon, ammonia solution)
    4 being white heroin hydrochloride (and is created by ading acetone and further hydrochloric acid to number 3 )

    As seen at the end of this document from D-F chemistry archives
    http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=4&id=8628
     
  11. Synaps

    Synaps Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    138
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    210
    From Google cached version of http://designer-drugs.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/heroinmfg.html , 16 Mar 2011 23:13:33 GMT

    From this we can draw the assumption that the types are as follows:

    Type #1: Opium
    Type #2: Morphine base/HCL
    Type #3: Heroin base (most suitable for smoking, the Afghan heroin on the European market which needs to be heated a bit with citric acid before injection is this type)
    Type #4: Heroin HCL (white heroin)

    To answer the original question, it is rare to encounter type #1 and #2 in the heroin market because they are not heroin.

    Black tar heroin does not fit in here as it is uses a different method altogether to get from opium to heroin. This method does not utilize acetic anhydride (which is watched and hard to get) but regular acetic acid. It is easier, cruder. The product is not just heroin, but also 6-MAM and 3-MAM. 6-MAM is more potent than heroin and 3-MAM is less potent than heroin.
     
  12. neversummer

    neversummer

    Age:
    71
    Reputation Points:
    107
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    328
    Why would #2 be morphine, heroin metabolizes to morphine. heroin is just morphine with two extra acetic acid groups. Seems like its classified wrong, as in any opiate is a heroin number because morphine makes heroin
     
  13. scottd420

    scottd420 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    I always went by the 70's DEA guide, but I guess that's not what I thought.
    The above poster is right, tar manufacturing only using glacial acetic acid which can be in the high 90 percentile in purity, but it doesn't do a good of a job at acetylizing heroin--hence getting 6-MAM and 3-MAM. (3-MAM being inactive actually)
     
  14. MadOne

    MadOne Mercury Member

    Reputation Points:
    -55
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    190
    I think kasbeq may be bang on the money there because the is deffinatly a differance between the old fashoned type of brown heroin and the newer smokable freebased heroin as it tends to always be a off white colour these days and purity can reach as high as around the 90% pure mark at source. Heroin number 1 i think must be a referance to the morphine base or morphine salt.

    I read somewhere that this is a precursor drug usually around the 85% pure mark and is never normally used by drug users and addicts unless you got friends in afghanistan that prefer morphine over heroin. ;) Back Tar im 99% sure that is just essentially opium that has had the morphine inside it converted into other various stronger alkaloids.

    Peace out peeps.
     
  15. Cwb20022

    Cwb20022 Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,470
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,930
    Heroin purity has been classified into four grades. No.4 is the purest form – white powder (salt) to be easily dissolved and injected. No.3 is "brown sugar" for smoking (base). No.1 and No.2 are unprocessed raw heroin (salt or base).[79]
    This may help