1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

Effects - What would LSD be like for a blind person?

Discussion in 'LSD Discussions' started by PapaPete, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. PapaPete

    PapaPete Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    7
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    Would they see cevs? Does anyone know?
     
  2. SlightlyBitter

    SlightlyBitter

    Reputation Points:
    290
    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    217
    I'm sure it would depend what causes the persons blindness. I mean if they got splashed with acid and lost their vision, then yeah they would probably experience CEV.

    If the person was born with out any of the components necessary for vision. then perhaps they would not experience them. Honestly its all subjective to the particular person.

    Hoever they would experience all the other effects of lsd.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2012
  3. Phungushead

    Phungushead Twisted Depiction Staff Member

    Reputation Points:
    17,815
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    4,337
    My understanding is that it all depends on whether the person was blind from birth (congenitally blind), or if they went blind later in their life.

    If an individual is congenitally blind, it is physically impossible for them to "see" anything at all - The thing is that the visual cortex in the brain (and most of the rest of the brain, for that matter) cannot develop without stimulation. So, if someone is born blind then they are not receiving the visual stimuli that is necessary to develop the visual cortex. In these people, the visual cortex instead develops to support the four remaining functional senses (It is completely true what they say about blind people, that their remaining senses are more developed and stronger than someone with functioning vision).

    In this case, the person may experience aural, olfactory, and tactile hallucinations, but no visuals.

    However, if the person went blind later in life, they still would probably have some kind of visuals because their visual cortex should be fairly developed and working, it's just not perceiving any input.

    The whole thing is similar to how people who are blind experience dreams: If someone is born blind, they will still dream when they sleep, but their dreams will only involve the senses that still function... But if someone is born with sight and goes blind later down the road, they continue to dream with nearly full vision. Since their brain already knows what it is like to see something, it can produce that sight while dreaming...


    Trip report (mushrooms) from a congenitally blind individual:
    There's also a few other related threads here:

    What would happen if a blind, deaf, or disabled person ate acid or shrooms?
    Would a Blind Person Experience Visuals from Magic Mushrooms?
    Taking LSD being blind
    blind people tripping on LSD
    Do blind people hallucinate on LSD?

    There is also a very interesting study in the archive centered around this topic:
    Effects of a hallucinogenic agent in totally blind subjects (1963)
     
  4. Buddha2012

    Buddha2012 Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    200
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    124
    This was quite an interesting read haha, I wonder if there are any more reports on blind people and hallucinogens....
     
  5. psyche

    psyche Palladium Member

    Age:
    28
    Reputation Points:
    954
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,229
    On a related note, I recently watched a documentary where a blind person was using a software that translated views into sounds, which he learned to interpret. He actually saw the things, a ferris wheel, fences, people. Being blind from birth, he was quite scared at first about the mystical impressions that he perceived. So the blind person also has neurological means for perceiving visuals, they just aren't used normally.
     
  6. narchitect

    narchitect Newbie

    Age:
    23
    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    12
     
  7. psyche

    psyche Palladium Member

    Age:
    28
    Reputation Points:
    954
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,229
    I'm confused by what do you mean by "already-crippled/diminished perception of reality". Do you mean that psychedelics cripple or diminish perception? I think you know that they expand the consciousness, they don't cripple or diminish it. And you realize that when such an important sense as sight is missing, other senses develop more sensitive and inner realms possibly richer in amiss of visual perception? When you don't see, your imagination fills the void. Certainty can ruin imagination and impoverish richness.

    I agree that blind people taking psychedelics is an amazing concept.
     
  8. narchitect

    narchitect Newbie

    Age:
    23
    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    By "crippled/diminished sense of reality" I meant that the person taking the psychedelics is blind, and sight is (in my opinion) the most important of the five senses in humans and most animals. I certainly agree with you that the imagination would fill the gap, but no matter how you slice it their ability to perceive reality/the outside world is limited in ways that the rest of ours' isn't, and that's all I was pointing out.
     
  9. psyche

    psyche Palladium Member

    Age:
    28
    Reputation Points:
    954
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,229
    Yes I see(sigh, pun intended?). It was just the "already" that confused me. Like psychedelics would further diminish your senses, which they don't, just the opposite. But I see what you mean, the combination of blindness and psychedelics is one hell of a experience.
     
  10. narchitect

    narchitect Newbie

    Age:
    23
    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    Yup :) glad we managed to communicate on that one.
     
  11. psyche

    psyche Palladium Member

    Age:
    28
    Reputation Points:
    954
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,229
    Someone asked about the documentary I mentioned. It was a tv-documentary about what is genius. Nothing LSD related. They showed a blind man "looking" out the window of car and describing what he saw. The man told his story and mentioned the emergence of a new sense, namely sight, and said it was frightening at first, and took some time to learn process it. He even called the developer of the software after first trying it, asking what the hell is happening to him. I have no reason to suspect they would lie.
     
  12. sebs88888

    sebs88888 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Funny that you ask this question, as I shared this story about three hours ago with a friend when we were discussing LSD.

    I had a very interesting teacher in high school who would never admit to doing drugs, but it was obvious to all of us that he was a burnout.

    He didn't mind sharing other people's stories about their experiences with drugs though, or educating us and/or sharing his opinion.

    I vividly remember one day where a student blatantly asked him during lunch "What would LSD be like if you were blind?" Our teacher had served as a mechanic in the Vietnam war, and told us that he had a friend who was blind since the day they were born whom ingested LSD while they were in Vietnam. He said that the man only experienced a body-high and had no visual hallucinations or effects.

    So, what Phungushead said seems to be pretty accurate. In this case anyways.
     
  13. psyche

    psyche Palladium Member

    Age:
    28
    Reputation Points:
    954
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,229
    There is also an account of a congenitally blind(blind from birth) person seeing for the first time during an NDE in this documentary.

    Speculating why this would be, apparently brain has much less absolute and central role in consciousness that was previously thought; specific memories, despite there being compelling evidence from some research in the beginning of the 20th century, might not be coded in the brain. A study looking to confirm those results studied salamander brains. Apparently they can be removed and re-installed without killing a salamander.

    In the study, salamanders were given time to learn a maze. After that a portion of salamanders brain that was thought to be responsible for memories of the maze was removed. They still made it through. Even after most of the brain was removed, they of course limped their way, but still memory of the maze seemed intact. Furthermore, installing the brain upside down, switching the right and left hemisphere or even mixing parts of brains of different salamanders did not hinder the memory of the maze.

    I can get the names of the studies after getting a book I gave someone back. It seems the memory is more likely preserved in interference patterns, in the same way the seemingly random pattern that forms when two or more stones are dropped in a lake and their waves collide, holds the information of all of the original waves. Also, the brains visual system processes the visual image in it's fourier transformation, that is, broken down to it's frequency components, not by simply imitating the shapes of the outside world in the firing patterns of the neural network.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011