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Effects - Which cannabinoids produce the most physical stone?

Discussion in 'Cannabinoids' started by malsat, Jan 31, 2010.

  1. malsat

    malsat Gold Member

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    I UTSE but did not find what I was looking for.

    In your friend's experience, which of the cannabinoids produces the most physical stone? I am wondering which will be less likely to cause paranoia in an individual who is somewhat prone to paranoia occasionally when smoking both real cannabis and headshop blends. He has found that certain blends produce a more satisfying body high with less of a tendency towards paranoia and would like to find the most efficient means of attaining this feeling.
     
  2. msimm

    msimm Newbie

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    Swim thinks JWH-081 might fit that bill.
     
  3. ronpintx

    ronpintx Newbie

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    Yes, JWH-018 is a great research tool -- dosage can be fine-tuned for individual research goals.

    Paranoia reactions fascinate SWIM. He only vaguely remembers paranoid reactions -- during his 20's. Maybe it's related to testosterone somehow?

    Otherwise, SWIM wonders if its the whole social-judgement thing for "self-indulgence" or worries about any "appearance of impropriety" that bleeds though to affect younger stoners? (all that hope and promise -- at stake)
     
  4. CoryInJapan

    CoryInJapan Silver Member

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    He said 081 not 018.

    Im swim personal opinion 018 is more head heavy than the body high.So I wouldnt recommend 18 as the most physical stoning.
     
  5. readeadamie

    readeadamie Silver Member

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    CP,47,497 gives a good physical stone that is much longer lasting and mellower than JWH-018, although it's a bit harder to obtain.
     
  6. Drats

    Drats Gold Member

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    Another fact is, that CP47,497 is very long lasting and this could be a problem if someone already doesn´t feel too comfortable. If there are known problems like this, I would advise to check short lasting ones first.
    Of course CP47,497 is harder to find and often costs 5 times as much as JWH 018, but it also the effects last around 3 times longer. SWIM also made the experience that CP 47,497 can kick in very hard if someone has no tolerance to cannabinoids. I wouldn´t use it if there was a consumption break of more than 4 weeks or known sensibilities.
    CP 47,497 developes it physical effects more with the tolerance. I had asimilar headbuzz to other cannabinoids when he started with CP 47,497, but while other cannabinoids loose in effects with the coming tolerance, also the "downing" effects are getting weaker. But for CP 47,497 I had the feeling that also the whole effect range looses in strength, but the "downing" effects don´t weaken with the same speed.
    For example, if SWIM builds a tolerance within 1 week he has to double the amount of CP 47,497 to get the same strong effects, but the downer effect just lost 40-50% of it´s strength.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2010
  7. readeadamie

    readeadamie Silver Member

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    I'd deffo reccomend CP, 47 497 over JWH-018 precisely for this "down" effect You speaks of. The OP asked which cannabinoid would produce the most "physical stone", not an "up-high" as JWH-018 in my opinion produces. Although JWH-018 is much shorter acting than CP, 47, 497, and this may be useful in the case of a difficult experience, I think that a difficult experience is much more likely to occur with the use of JWH-018. I find the effects of JWH-018 are alot like a strong Sativa strain, producing much more mentally high than physically stoning effects. These mental effects include euphoria, racing thoughts, temporary short-term memory loss, etc. but can also, if taken in excess or in individuals particularly sensitive to cannabinoids it can cause varying amounts of anxiety. This can range from mild paranoia to full blown panic attacks.

    I find that consuming some CP, 47, 497, (smoked) during one of these periods evens him right out (It seems to be anti-anxiety/seems it helps regulate effects of other cannabinoids in a similar way CBD does in real cannabis, that is by reducing intensity of the mental effects but extending the overall duration of the high). I find CP,47, 497, to be alot like a pure Indica strain. It's effects are much more physical and much less mental. The physical (also ofen called medical) effects include dry mouth, drowsiness, heavy limbs, increased appetite, red eyes (congestion of the conjunctival blood vessels), a reduction of intra-ocular pressure, muscle relaxation and a sensation of hot or cold hands and feet.

    my favorite thing about CP, 47, 497 is its long lasting effects. When I get high he wants the high to last! JWH-018 leaves SWIM back to baseline in 1-2 hours (not a good thing in SWIM's opinion) whereas the main effects of CP, 47, 497 can last from 5-8 hours with mild lingering aftereffects the next morning if smoked at night. A cup of coffee or some JWH-018 will cure the morning after "down" effects (I like 'em though). If SWIM want's to get high all day on JWH-018 he would have to take between 3 and 6 smoked doses throughout, but only 1 or 2 with CP, 47, 497.

    Real cannabis is (almost always) longer lasting (bout 4 hours for main effects) and more physically stoning than JWH-018, but (except for a few specail creeper and Indica strains) not as long lasting or physically stoning as CP, 47, 497. These cannabinoids are very potent like this in their pure forms so much care must be taken in measuring out the minute doses otherwise negative acute effects like anxiety/panic attacks/increased heart rate etc. can occur (this can happen with too much of either).

    Does anyone know of any other physically stoning synthetic cannabinoids that work mainly on the CB2 receptors? Whatever cannabinoid(s) is/are in the Spice "Spirit" range seem to affect the CB2 receptors more than the CB1s, but unlike the original Spice Gold and Diamond (CP, 47, 497 based) they only last about 2 hours or so with much less after effects.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2010
  8. msimm

    msimm Newbie

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    After becoming an early fan of the Magic Spice blend (no longer a fan, after I believe they changed formulation) I am becoming increasingly interested in the CP family cannabinoids. Having tried 018/073/081/250 from the JWH series he finds they can produce nice results, but not so much on the milder end (with the exception of JWH-081).

    Cut/paste mainly from wikipedia (so take it with several milligrams of salt):

    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 Column 4 Column 5
    CB1 CB2 Notes Source
    JWH-015 28x acts as a subtype-selective cannabinoid agonist. Its affinity for CB2 receptors is 13.8nM, while its affinity for CB1 is 383nM, meaning that it binds almost 28x more strongly to CB2 than CB1. Wikipedia
    JWH-018 3x Potent cannabinoid receptor agonist with mild selectivity for CB2 (Ki values are 2.94 and 9.0 nM for CB2 and CB1 receptors respectively. Wikipedia
    JWH-073 5x acts as a cannabinoid agonist at both the CB1 and CB2 receptors. It is somewhat selective for the CB2 subtype, with affinity at this subtype approximately 5x the affinity at CB1. Wikipedia
    JWH-081 10x acts as a cannabinoid agonist at both the CB1 and CB2 receptors. It is fairly selective for the CB1 subtype, with affinity at this subtype approximately 10x the affinity at CB2. Wikipedia
    JWH-133 200x is a potent selective CB2 receptor agonist, with a Ki of 3.4nM and selectivity of around 200x for CB2 over CB1 receptors. Wikipedia
    JWH-200 acts as a cannabinoid receptor agonist. Its binding affinity at the CB1 receptor is 42nM, around the same as that of THC, but interestingly, its analgesic potency in vivo was higher than that of other analogues with stronger CB1 binding affinity in vitro, around 3 times that of THC but with less sedative effect, most likely reflecting favourable pharmacokinetic characteristics. Wikipedia
    JWH-250 3x acts as a cannabinoid agonist at both the CB1 and CB2 receptors, with a Ki of 11nM at CB1 and 33nM at CB2. Wikipedia
    CP 47,497 is a potent CB1 agonist with a Kd of 2.1 nM. Wikipedia
    CP 55,244 is an extremely potent CB1 full agonist with a Ki of 0.21nM. Wikipedia
    CP 55,940 is considered a full agonist at both CB1 and CB2 receptors and has ki values of 0.58nM and 0.68nM respectively. Wikipedia
    HU-210 8x highly potent cannabinoid receptor agonist (Ki values are 0.061 and 0.52 nM at cloned human CB1 and CB2 receptors respectively). Tocris

    **For a more up-to-date/complete/corrected version of this chart please see this thread.

    Reading the above JWH-133 and JWH-015 seem to both have strong affinities for CB2, and I believe they've been found in commercial cannabinoid blends, but neither seem to be commonly available.

    Using receptor affinity for selection swim might be inclined to think he prefers more selective CB1 agonists like JWH-081 and presumably CP 47,497 and CP 55,244.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  9. Herbal Healer 019

    Herbal Healer 019 Silver Member

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    JWH 200 based on this little bit of info: "its analgesic potency in vivo was higher than that of other analogues with stronger CB1 binding affinity", not only that but it's active @ the 2-5mg range so its cheap on a dollar:dose ratio.

    Also it's one of the shorter lasting ones which is good for eventful days.

    I have yet to try it but has 500mg on the way & will add his experiences they seem to be lacking.
     
  10. KVgroup

    KVgroup Newbie

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    I have tried jwh 200- no effect. SWIM think that jwh-018 is most strongest from synthetics cannabinoids(small dosage-high effect). Soon we will found something new from synthetic cannabinoid,becouse almost all jwh is banned
     
  11. ophelia

    ophelia Newbie

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    Agreed...or maybe 250.
     
  12. echoes

    echoes Newbie

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    if I was looking for a indica like synthetic cannabinoid. as swim, dosen't like sativa's one bit. would CP,55940 be a good one.
     
  13. hashattack

    hashattack Newbie

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    I got a smoke called kapow off a website which apparently has no SYNTHS at all in it. Cannabinoids banned where I am from. I got a really nice stone off it, very chillaxing and got the munchies too. Was a bit like smoke plus which has now been taken off the market. SWIM mixed it with their grass too and it spun it out nicely.
     
  14. davestate

    davestate Gold Member

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    My lab rat has tried JWH 018, JWH 073 and JWH 250, as well as ounces of weed back in his growing, pre military days. Out of the synthetics, JWH073, vaped off tinfoil was definitely the most body stoning.
    It produced a relaxed, mellow mindset, with laughter coming easily, with a good amount of dreamy sedation, sleep was no problem if desired yet it was a good choice if the animal wanted to chill and watch a movie for example.

    It was a nice augmenter to the experience, making things more interesting and in some ways increasing the focus and enjoyment of the film as it removed other distractions/thoughts and make the animals body very relaxed, decrasing muscle tone and making him "sink" into the bed.
    It increased heart rate slightly with the initial hit, but it wasn't uncomfortable, as it produced a mellow feeling of inner warmth in his chest and abdomen.
    No paranoia was present, even after 6-7 redoses. The slight heart rate increase was not noticed with any redose after the 1st.

    To summarise, the effects on the mind were anxiolytic, very easy mentally, with no racing thoughts, worries or paranoia, increased humor and sedation. Munchies were noticed. The dosage was 10mgs. In terms of body effects, the main feelings were a sense of warmth, muscle relaxation, a heavy feeling and extreme comfort
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  15. seven7seven

    seven7seven Silver Member

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    Out of Am-694, WIN 48098, JWH-018, JWH-250, and JWH-081 I would have to say the 081 was the most purely physical stone with 018 being second though with the 018 there is a lot of other intense things going on as well. The 081 is a smooth body high and is a lot less susceptible to "the fear."
     
  16. GBIFS

    GBIFS Newbie

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    -Billie Joe Armstrong
     
  17. erineseye

    erineseye Newbie

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    I got some of that too. SWIM gonna try it later, not really expecting much though SWIM IS use to the synth stuff so might get nice surprise if what You is right. did You get the manufactures guarantee with it? a mod on here was interested in that. maybe that will start a trend for manufactures taking bit of responsibility for what they put out there.
     
  18. hashattack

    hashattack Newbie

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    ^^ Yes I did get manufacturer's guarantee that it does not contain any banned or prohibited compounds so was quite surprised with the hit they got off it. Has You tried it yet?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2010
  19. wdh13

    wdh13 Newbie

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    A cat has tried legal smoking blends three times. The first two times were before the rampant banning of many cannabinoids found in smoking blends-- roughly two years ago. Unfortunately the cat does not remember the brand names of the blends. This was probably due to the fact that they produced little to no marijuana like effects. In fact, the cat didn't really feel anything at all.
    Today the cat decided to give smoking blends another try, so he went to his local head shop. He purchased 3 grams of the blend called "Dead Man Walking". When the cat got home he rolled the herb into a joint and added about 1/8 of a cigarette to the joint.
    Now, the cat had read on other forums that the legal blends being sold after the bans took effect could produce very unpleasant effects, especially extreme paranoia, anxiety, and vomiting. Many posts mentioned that the user had to be hospitalized after only a few small hits.
    In lieu of this, the cat decided it would be a good idea to take an anxiolytic (in this case 2mgs xanax) prior to smoking the spliff.
    The cat is now feeling as though he smoked a small amount of decent (but not dank) grade marijuana. The cat feels about the same (low) level of paranoia as when he takes the same amount of xanax before smoking real cannabis. The cat feels pretty stoned--not tripping his tiny little cat balls off, but not a low grade high either.
    The cat recommends the brand "Dead Man walking". The cat will first experiment with smoking a similar sized spliff minus the preemptive xanax, then move on to larger sized joints and maybe even borrow his friend the rabbit's bong and take a rip of the stuff.
    This was the cats first post. Please inform the cat if the post was overly descriptive, or of any way to improve his future posting.

    wdh13 added 821 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

    after the cat transformed into a panda bear, the resulting panda continued his experiment with "Dead Man Walking" legal incense blend. this time the panda smoked a spliff about 1.5 times as large as the first (enough to almost fill a 1.5 size rolling paper) without only 1mg xanax. his high was more energizing but he was not tripping his panda balls off. another positive experience with this herbal blend! btw the pana bear is a male and weighs about 190lbs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2011