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Health - Which type of Kratom is best for sedative effects in treating insomnia?

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by JayBee, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. JayBee

    JayBee Silver Member

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    Shalom. SWIM has used various types of Kratom for quite some time, usually the Thai 15x extracts, etc. However,...there is a problem. SWIM notices that even with an average of 1 to 3 grams per dose (mixed with hot water as a tea),...he cannot hardly sleep,...due to the stimulating effects dramatically overriding the sedative effects. Whenever upping the dose in an effort to increase "sedation", it becomes too strong to the point of extreme nausea and dizziness. Likewise, at night, frequent urination seems to be a recurring problem.

    SWIM uses Kratom for treating back pain (after experiencing numerous work and play-related injuries) instead of pharmaceutical painkillers, due to their horrible side effects.

    So SWIM is asking : Do any of you have any recommendations as to which type of Kratom is best for its sedative properties and treating insomnia? Everything SWIM has tried up to this point is too stimulating, even at high doses.

    Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

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    There is loads of info on this already if you UTFSE.

    Anyway to answer SWIYs question SWIM would recommend Bali. Malay also. A general rule of thumb is that red vein is more stimulating and green vein is more relaxing. Thai is generally regarded as being stimulating above all other kratoms.

    SWIM has some enhanced bali at the moment and he says it is a lovely relaxing aroma.
     
  3. JayBee

    JayBee Silver Member

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    Thanks, Space Numpty. The info you shared is muchly appreciated and I will look into it further. Only one thing,...please do not automatically assume that just because someone asks a common question,...that he/she is a "dimwit". I already have done ample research into Kratom for quite some time,...including using the F'ing search engine, ...not only browsing through this site, but also looking all over the web.

    Here's the problem, since you may perhaps have no clue as to why I asked :

    If one goes to 30 various sources of information, seeking facts about a particular topic,...then one will possibly end up receiving up to 30 completely different opinions which are very confusing and contradictory. THAT is why I asked,...to get some kind of confirmation.

    Once again,...thank you for sharing. If anybody else here has any thoughts, please feel free to post.

    Now SWIM is going to take some Kava Kava and smoke cannaboinoids to take the edge off and relax a bit, before purchasing some enhanced, green vein Bali.

    Peace out! :cool:

    <----------------------whooosh!!!
     
  4. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

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    SWIM wasnt assuming SWIY was a "dimwit" atall he was merely pointing out that there is loads of info on the subject in the Kratom section of the forum.

    The good thing with Kratom it is quite specific and therefore whilst people may disagree on which strain they prefer, everybody tends to agree on the experiences given with specific strains. So yeah, get SWIYself some bali or malay and avoid Thai, especially "Maeng Da" Thai which is meant to be particularly stimulating. As regards Indo Kratom the experience tends to differ depending on the strain. Any decent source will generally tell you which kind of buzz to expect from strain to strain though.

    Quality can really depend on vendor and SWIM recommends joining a kratom specific forum which allows source discussion and reviews so SWIY knows the sellers rep before handing over his cash. SWIM has done this and now uses really good sources and knows what products they excel at thanks to reviews. Hopefully SWIM does "have a clue as to why SWIY asked" and this has been helpful to SWIY.
     
  5. JayBee

    JayBee Silver Member

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    Thank you for clearing up the misunderstanding (on my part) for misinterpreting the intentions behind a phrase you used within the previous post. My bad! ;)

    On the internet,...it is VERY easy to misinterpret things,...for obvious reasons.

    All of the info you shared is really helpful to me and clears up a few confusing factors, due to the widespread contradictions on many sites.

    I am a member of several Kratom specific forums, and have read numerous reviews,...which once again,...are contradictory.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2010
  6. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

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    As a general rule of thumb it is better not to buy "branded" products from a headshop but seek specialists.

    Thats as much as SWIM can say.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2010
  7. arizona79

    arizona79 Silver Member

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    My ferret views Bali as being the most sedative generally. At higher doses, however, she's found most types as being sedative, except for the rare really, really amazing batch of OST (and possibly Maeng Da, which she has limited experience with).

    She'd recommend, for a nice evening, starting off with a low dose a few hours before bed and then a larger dose about an hour or so before bed. That way, SWIY will get to experience the fun of kratom initially, and then (hopefully) have a nice sleep.

    My friend told me to caution SWIY, however, that nightly kratom use can make it even harder for SWIY to sleep at night if one decides to go off of it. Although, if one has trouble anyway, she suspects it might not matter all that much.

    One other note, according to my ferret: different batches of kratom, even among the same strain, can make one have vivid dreams. Some batches might cause bad dreams, others really bizarre dreams. My ferret says she remembers her dreams pretty well right upon waking up, so if anyone were so inclined, it would be a great time to start a dream journal! (And if so, maybe post SWIY's experiences with possible dream differences between batches- that'd make an interesting read!) Just something to be aware of. In a past life, many many years ago, my ferret was a waitress and occasionally her kratom use will have her dreaming she's busting her little ferret butt waiting on people who are never satisfied, and she wakes up all tired!
     
  8. JayBee

    JayBee Silver Member

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    Thanks, Space Numpty and arizona79, for providing beneficial information about Kratom which can be applied in wisdom with success.

    It is muchly appreciated :thumbsup:.

    That was very interesting about the different types of dreaming occuring after partaking of various batches and types of this awesome plant,...and if anyone can put together sufficient info about that topic, SWIM personally thinks that it could potentially be an enlightening topic of discussion.

    After all,..."knowledge is power".

    Shalom aleichem (peace be with you). ​
     
  9. Panacee

    Panacee Silver Member

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    The reason you find contradictory information is because the effects of a drug are not the same in everyone. Swiy has to find out for himself.

    But general information as a starting point is always helpful of course.

    Swim is a trustfull source for the info you are asking because he treated his insomnia with kratom succesfully. Swim thinks kratom is the best medicin for insomnia:thumbsup:. Better then sleeping pills! (and he has tried this too).

    In lower amounts kratom is rather stimulating then sedating. Swim finds the sedating effects only with 10+ grams. Bali is better suited for this purpose then Thai. After ingestion of the 10+g Bali tea Swim usually gets the nods after one hour, and can easily get to sleep. This effect will stay for hours (to be able to sleep). With this concentrations sleep is also prolonged and deepened. But when Swim waits too long, he is not being able to sleep anymore! Especially with the higher doses, if he waits too long he will not sleep, or only very very late in the night (6:00+).:s
    When Swim is nodding and dreaming on kratom for 2 hours or so in the couch and he decides to go to bed, then after getting up, brushing his teeth and going to his bedroom, he is having trouble with sleeping again. So you better stay put if you want to be sure to sleep again.
    Another solution is boosting up the kratom with 0,3 - 0,4 g 15X extract. Swim knows it sounds like a pittyful amount but it is on top of the shitload he already ingested. It really helps Swim to fall back in sleep again. But this is not a good idea when the effects of the tea already worn off. And it is not a good idea to repeat this boost more then twice (your hangover will also get a boost).

    So in short: the amount of kratom should be enough, and the timeframe in which you go to sleep is also important: not too early and not too late.

    This information is what works for Swim, he does not know if it works for other people. But Swim does not think he is so different from humanity that he is the only one...
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
  10. JayBee

    JayBee Silver Member

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    Thanx, Panacee for sharing your thoughts on this matter. I completely agree that oftentimes, the reason for the seemingly contradictory information is the wide variety of effects and experiences for users.​

    SWIM received his 50g order of enhanced Bali last week, and has been making hot tea with approximately 2 1/2 to 3 grams per drink. Needless to say,...after switching from the extremely stimulating Thai to the more sedating Bali,...it made all the difference in the world.​

    SWIM is now sleeping .....perhaps a little bit too much now,...from 10 to 12 hours, which is wayyy up from the previous 3 to 5 hours. So therefore, SWIM is cutting back on the Bali, possibly reducing from 3 g to maybe 2g for the late night hot tea.​

    However,...SWIM must warn all male users of the enhanced Bali Kratom,...while it is extremely sedating, and the euphoria is awesomely intense (to say the least)...., it is highly likely to almost completely shut down the use of your male sex member. No joke!!! For SWIM (after using this Kratom for at least 2 to 3 days), it seems to take approx. 10 minutes just to take a piss,....and OH LORD,...forget having any such thing as "libido". Even if SWIY manages to get an erection prior to (oral or intercourse) sexual relations,....actually enduring to the point of ejaculation may be almost as impossible as touching the moon. LOL!!!​

    Just take it easy on enhanced Bali,...or else, it will not be merciful on SWIY. ​
     
  11. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

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    SWIM is glad his suggestion helped. SWIM also agree that one should take it easy with enhanced products. He can now easily take 10g with little euphoria although it still sedates. SWIMs probably done 40-50g today of various standard leaf with little effect and thats mainly down to extracts and enhanced product. Its time for SWIM to take a couple of days off and as a way of commiting to it he will note his experiences over the next two days here, on DF. He has no wish to stop using it but he clearly needs to reset his tolerance as at the moment it is simply not enjoyable and is wasting money.

    After those 2 days he is going to take it much easier with Kratom. His had his fun and caned it for a few weeks but it needs to remain cost effective and enjoyable and the rise in tolerance can be startling. He may well stay away from things like UEI altogether or at least reserve it for VERY special occasions, simply as it renders most other Kratoms useless.
     
  12. Panacee

    Panacee Silver Member

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    3 - 5 hours of sleep is not really insomnia...you can be very happy with that. BTW, if you cut down the dose, you might not get into the sedating level. Although 2 grams enhanced might still be enough.​
    I know:p
     
  13. sibirianfox

    sibirianfox Newbie

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    However,...SWIM must warn all male users of the enhanced Bali Kratom,...while it is extremely sedating, and the euphoria is awesomely intense (to say the least)...., it is highly likely to almost completely shut down the use of your male sex member. No joke!!! For SWIM (after using this Kratom for at least 2 to 3 days), it seems to take approx. 10 minutes just to take a piss,....and OH LORD,...forget having any such thing as "libido". Even if SWIY manages to get an erection prior to (oral or intercourse) sexual relations,....actually enduring to the point of ejaculation may be almost as impossible as touching the moon. LOL!!!​

    Shalom, ma nishma?

    Just wanted to say that It is a very common effect of any opioid or opioid-like substance to induce a loss of sensitivity.
    That is why so many young guys fall in love with opioids: if they were premature before, they suddenly extend their ability
    to have sex from 3 min to 20-30 minutes.
    Its not hard to imagine what effect this newly-found ability has on male psyche... having been there as well...
    :)

    Peace
     
  14. ericmst18

    ericmst18 Newbie

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    I Feel like bali would be the best, usually the way kratom effects me is it starts off stimulating then slowly turns into sedation, later on i become sleepy and could easily go to bed from there.

    I feel like you can make a tea with other herbs that would help, including passion flower, hops, valerian root with the added kratom, to have a stronger effect that would induce sleep.
     
  15. Khariz

    Khariz Silver Member

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    I use bali for my insomnia. If I toss back 8 grams of bali before bed, I sleep very well. If I forget or fail to do this...it takes me forever to fall asleep.
     
  16. Fatbugger

    Fatbugger Newbie

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    I dont find it ideal for insomnia.
    I have to wait a couple hours after ingestion to be able to sleep. No matter which strain.*shrug
     
  17. seaturtle

    seaturtle Titanium Member

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    Yeah definitely, the effects are too stimulating for the first couple hours to go to sleep. I usually don't go to sleep until 3 hours after dosing.

    With fresh Red Vein Borneo I pretty much get knocked out after a few hours, so I actually find it great for insomnia. I couldn't stay up if I wanted to after a few hours with the Kratom I have now when I take a dose of 10-15 grams. I have a tolerance though, so I don't recommend anyone start with a dose that high.
     
  18. Khariz

    Khariz Silver Member

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    Actually, I agree. I wasn't specific. I don't toss back the bali and immediately go to bed. I toss back the bali, enjoy the first hour or so watching TV and once I get into the relaxing phase, I go to bed.
     
  19. knightsmith

    knightsmith Silver Member

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    My big batch came from a bad source,, I remember the first batch, knocked me right out on the night when I made the tea. Id only used half of the 3.5g powder, should have used more at once instead of about .5g/time. I got 12 or 17 hours sleep, will have to look at my diary. I will try the green vein for sedation as thats whats bothering me, if my liver tests come back worse i'll have to quit it. 2 days of kratom couldn't be responsible for the rise in damage in 2 days.

    I liked the red vein, but it made me shake to where the computer was unusable. Other than that I have to be careful this doesn't turn into an addiction. it'd be my 4th :S I remember when it pwned me when I was watching arrow. Its about the only thing that'd stop me watching a fresh episode other than a nuke through my window.
     
  20. Cousin Merle

    Cousin Merle Titanium Member

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    I find stem & vein to be one of the best for sleep- either by iself or mixed with Red Vein Borneo. VERY relaxing and I almost always sleep well after this...