Experiences - White Vein Indonesian Kratom

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by seaturtle, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. seaturtle

    seaturtle Titanium Member

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    I'm an avid user of Kratom, preferring Bali but I do take my fair share of Maeng Da. I received my first batch of White Vein Indonesian Kratom yesterday and it didn't take long for the first experiment to be underway. I toss n washed 10 grams with orange juice. Not much happened in the first 45 minutes and I was starting to become dissapointed, but then the slow build up began. As the 2 hour mark approached I was in an intense nod, the type where you almost fall of the toilet, and couldn't see straight. I had no choice but to lie down and enjoy the opium dreams, which is reminiscent of my early days of Kratom use. I got up around the 3 hour mark since some friends were coming over and was still completely messed up, and heavy effects lasted until about 4 hours after dosing, which is much longer than Bali. Light to moderate opiate feelings lasted at least 2-3 more hours, hard to gauge exactly since I started casually drinking at that point.

    It seems that White Vein Indonesian is stronger gram for gram than Bali, and the opiating effects last longer (which might just be the result of taking in more alkaloids per dose). This was somewhat surprising since white vein kratom is supposed to be more stimulating and red vein (Bali) is supposed to be more sedating, but I think that's a broad generalization, every strain of Kratom is a hybrid of stimulating and opiating effects, and these effects change with the dose. 10 grams of White Vein Indonesian is probably quite a large dose, amateurs shouldn't take more than 5 grams of this strain at first. The potency of White Vein Indonesian is probably comparable to Maeng Da, but Maeng Da is definitely more stimulating.
     
  2. chronicroaster

    chronicroaster Newbie

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    So, You got an intense nod off kratom, like you were falling down and couldn't sit up??
     
  3. seaturtle

    seaturtle Titanium Member

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    I could still sit up, but if I didn't pay attention I'd end up hunched over. Nothing out of the usual for me at least, Kratom is probably the strongest opiate I've used, about tied with Poppy Tea but oftentimes even more sedating.
     
  4. mindbenderoflife

    mindbenderoflife Newbie

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    Well I just got almost a lb. of a wvi and thai blend smells real nice and fresh 10grams you started with? fuck thats alot and ive been using kratom for awhile. now falling in the toilet, that's funny fucking shit! It's taken me awhile but I think I have finally made contact with a farmer and have found kratom for $XX kg. I wonder if I'm going to have problems with customs when ordering like this. oh there is a white and green bali. both are energetic. key is always finding the right dose for each strain and new batch. I always throw back 3 grms. right off the bat and the toss down another gram 'bout 15-20 mins. later. I'm really going to enjoy my 12.75 ozs. yeah buddy!!!!

    mindbenderoflife added 2 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

    But you really have to stop calling kratom an opiate, PLEASE! it gives kratom a bad rep, it does not come from the poppy plant therefor it cannot possibly be an "opiate" mytragina speciosa is kratom.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2013
    1. 3/5,
      Price discussion is taboo on this website, and one pound equals 16 ounces.
      May 7, 2015
    2. 3/5,
      price discussion is against the rules, you have been here long enough to know that
      Jun 28, 2013
    3. 3/5,
      A kilogram = ~36 ozs. And please edit out price discussion, thanks
      Jun 27, 2013
  5. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  6. seaturtle

    seaturtle Titanium Member

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    Gives Kratom a bad rep? Last time I checked the reason Kratom is so euphoric is because it agonizes the mu-opioid receptors, so it has a very similar action to Opiates, including a similar addiction and withdrawal syndrome. Difference is it's not from the Poppy plant so it's called an Opioid.

    And yeah, I wouldn't take 10 grams of any type of Kratom anymore, usually 3-8 grams.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  7. Fat Billy the Hippie

    Fat Billy the Hippie Silver Member

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    I agree with you.

    Of course there are variations in the alkaloid content, but every strain I used is a hybrid of stimulation/sedation and the effects are more probably to change with the dose.

    Even the white sumatran (same as indo, right?), which is suposed to be stimulating, I found pretty sedating. The most potent strain I've tried by the way...

    Actually, after I tried green malay and white sumatran I found red borneo (the most sedating strain) weak.
    Is the red vein borneo weaker in the alkaloid content? Or maybe it's just my tolerance to the strain?
     
  8. Happy Camper

    Happy Camper Silver Member

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    RVB is normally a very sedating strain that's not very intense, but long-acting . WVS is normally the opposite. Stimulating, and more intense, but short-acting. One thing about kratom though, there is a fair amount of variation in potency and consistancy among vendors, even within the same strain.
     
    1. 3/5,
      Please Don't Use Abbreviations, Whats RVB? Whats WVS?
      Apr 14, 2015
    2. 3/5,
      makes sense, thank you for the information!
      Aug 5, 2013
  9. Bro Smurf66

    Bro Smurf66 Silver Member

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    I also think Red Vein Borneo is very weak compared to other strains. The vendor I order from tests the alkaloid content for most of the strains they have in stock. They say that their Red vein Borneo is 1.1% Mitragynine, while Red vein Bali has 2.1%, White vein Maeng Da and Green Malay have 1.8%. If you're looking for something sedating/relaxing or for pain relief, then definitely stick with Bali. It's hard to beat IME.

    I'm always hunting for better strains, and have found that my favorites are: Green Vein Thai (Very energetic, more than any white vein I've tried), Red Vein Bali (Potent and relaxing, relieves my lower back pain), and Green Malay (perfect balance of sedation and energy). Despite what articles say about White Vein being the most energetic, Green Vein Thai has been the most "uppity" for me.

    Different types of veins play a factor in potency/effect and on top of that, strains from different parts of the world also have a huge effect on potency/effects (maybe more-so than what type of vein it is).

    EDIT: In this post, I originally said "Red Borneo is very weak compared to other strains... and that their Red Vein Borneo is 1.1%". That isn't correct. I meant to say, that their Red Sumatra is super weak in terms of effects, the Red Sumatra Mitragynine content tested at 1.1%. The reason for this edit is because Red Vein Sumatra is crap from every vendor I've ordered from, and Red Borneo is awesome/potent in terms of effects, and tends to be more sedating, with a little bit of stimulation. Literally,, 4 grams of Red or White Sumatra is about the same as 2.5 grams of Bali or Borneo.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2016
  10. Bluemystic11

    Bluemystic11 Newbie

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    Its not a OPIUM, but I find withdrawals a same as opium WDs. I had a pleasure to take a real opium for 5 years. Hmm, lucky or stupid me. I am taking kratom for 3 weeks now (first timer). And now can't stop because of severe WD.. (I took kratom, because I thought it will help me get off from suboxone).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2015
    1. 2/5,
      Source discussion is against the forum rules.
      Nov 18, 2015
  11. opiuhm

    opiuhm Newbie

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    I'm new to all this but my friend opi tried kratom for the first.time today. He got white vein. After taking about 3.5 grams and about an hour of waiting opi said it hit him hard. He loved it
     
  12. Bro Smurf66

    Bro Smurf66 Silver Member

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    If you're brand new to kratom and don't have an opiate tolerance, It's best to stick around 2-2.5 gram doses IMO. There are different alkaloids and qualities in kratom, and the effects will change depending on the size of the dose. Since Kratom has Stimulant AND sedative (opioid) qualities, the effects will change due to the size of dose like I just said. The stimulant and sedative qualities seem to compete with eachother.

    Here's what I mean:

    I've noticed over the past 4 years that lower doses are more stimulating, while higher doses tend to be more sedating (generally). So for me, even when taking a more sedating strain like Red veing Bali or Borneo, if I take a 2 - 2.5 gram dose, I'll be stimulated and want to clean the house or something. It's like the stimulation of coffee, except much 'cleaner' and not jittery at all, just motivated but not totally speedy. But if I take the same strain at a 4 -5 gram dose, I'll still be motivated, but more sedated and feel more of a body high than a mind high. If I take 8 grams, I'll be tired, body high, and want to just chill. The effects are dose dependent. Small doses create more stimulant effects, medium doses will cause stimulating/sedating effects, and higher doses just get downright sedating! (This is all if you don't have a tolerance though.)

    Every time I've done a taper, when I get down to 5x 2-2.5 gram doses per day, I get more satisfying effects and lasts longer for each dose than the usual 4 grams x5 doses per day. Now that's some Reverse Tolerance for ya!

    Just make sure that you don't take it too often. I know it's awesome and great, and will give you the motivation and a fun time doing things you would normally hate doing, but it comes with a price. The tolerance builds very fast and is easy to get addicted. If you get addicted and decide to get off of it, you can have a really hard time enjoying anything at all once you quit it. I learned the hard way. Now when I do activities that I love, I only get like 1/5 of the satisfaction or joy that I used to get from it, even when I'm still taking kratom. The withdrawal sucks and isn't worth going through at all. Ideally, doing it once a week maximum should be fine. I wouldn't do it any more than that though.

    Kratom has alkaloids that are partial mu-opioid receptor agonists. This will mess up your natural Endorphin production and release eventually, if too high of doses are taken for too long.

    I like to think of it like this (this is just an analogy and I'm trying to break it down in simple-ass terms, please don't harp me for not being 100% accurate): Your body is at homeostasis or close to it naturally, and has a good balance. When you take Kratom, your body has an abundance of opioid molecules, which makes you feel good for a while. Once this happens, your body tries to counteract the high levels of opioid molecules, by producing less endorphins and releasing less endorphins. So if you took one 4 gram dose per week, that one dose you took could make you feel 150% better than normal, but might make you feel like 80% as good as normal for the next few days after that since your body tried to counteract it.

    I'm not saying this is 100% scientific and would occur after just one dose, but can still be a valid theory to use as a guideline for anything. The human body is so good at adapting to things, but it feels like it has a hard time forgetting some things. It's easy to get addicted, and hard to become clean and sober again.
     
  13. Rose Hennessey

    Rose Hennessey Newbie

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    I started taking it for suboxone PAWS. I had quit sub 8 mg cold turkey and went insane pretty much. It wasn't as bad physically as kicking 120 mg of methadone CT but mentally it was worse. I've been on kratom now for around 9 months and starting a taper with some bali stem and vein tmrw. The detox isn't as bad as either but I still feel like complete shit and get reeeeally annoyed when I don't dose. I believe the kratom is starting to kill my emotions so it's time to stop. I'll use it on occurs for my back issues but I'm done with this taking it every day crap. Should've never started doing that.
     
  14. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Good luck with your taper, Rose.
    You should open a thread so you can keep people updated and where others can chime in with advice. Threads like that are not only helpful for yourself but for anyone else who might decide to follow the same path later on.
     
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