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Opinions - why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Discussion in 'Methamphetamine' started by MrAsia, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. MrAsia

    MrAsia Silver Member

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    Alot of people SWIM talks to and even users say that meth and ice are the same thing when its not. SWIM is no expert but SWIM is pretty sure that ice and meth are different. SWIM doesn't know what its like around parts of the world but SWIM is from Australia and where SWIM lives meth is this wet crystal looking stuff with a very strong chemical odor and ice is odorless transparent glass shards.

    From SWIM's personal experiences meth is weak and SWIM gets no rush from it, but with ice SWIM gets a very fat intense rush and blurry vision.
     
  2. OrgoSynth

    OrgoSynth Silver Member

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    Was always told to SWIM that ice is what one uses when meth is not available. That is to say that supposedly ice is a less powerful high/rush/good feeling, but with longer duration. SWIM isn't the most experienced in terms of use, but he says that meth has been better than the ice.

    The chemist part of SWIM points out that ice is actually 4-methylaminorex while methamphetamine is actually chemically something else. Similar effects. SWIM has seen both, but can't distinguish them based on appearance alone *most* of the time. Looks like a crystal you can kind of see through and maybe a little powder form.
     
  3. Mick Mouse

    Mick Mouse Palladium Member

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    "Ice" or 4-mar (4-methyaminorex) and "Meth" (methamphetamine) are definitely not the same thing! Ice is considerably stronger in both effects and duration.

    Most of the time, the confusion between the two comes down to simple ignorance. Meth is also known as Crystal-Crystal looks like Ice-thus, Meth = Ice.

    Also, there is the element of salesmanship. If you market your product as something that looks the same as a stronger substance, people will feel the need to try it. After all, everyone wants more bang for their buck!
     
  4. Addie Daddy

    Addie Daddy Silver Member

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    At least in swims area, "ice" applies to any kind of meth. Around here there is no naming distinction between kinds of meth (and never mentioned is if it is 4-methylaminorex). The names and terms have blended. Theres "good shit" "bad shit" and "OK shit". Sometimes I get powdery crystals, sometimes I get clear shards. Always called meth and/or ice colloquially.

    Addie Daddy added 1 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

    But in swims area (post pseudo bans) any kind of meth is nice to see that isn't cut to shit Mexican crap.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2011
  5. tdlucky

    tdlucky Silver Member

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    This is the exact case, in SWIMs 'hood. She can guess that its similar to people referring to things differently than others, based on "how they are brought up" in other words, you are a product of your environment. ???
     
  6. Skäggbiff

    Skäggbiff Mercury Member

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    Meth is called Ya-Ice (or simply 'ice' - Ya means medicine...) in Thailand. Getting your hands on some cold pills is peanuts.

    So people say that Meth and Ice are the same 1) they think it is 2) Easy marketing 3) It actually is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  7. salgoud

    salgoud

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    To be precise, we need to add some chemistry to the picture.

    Ice was first referred to 4-methylaminorex. However, ice is not just meth, it is a specific isomer of meth. To be exact, it is the dextro isomer of methamphetamine. Methamphetamine has three forms, the levo form, the racemic form, and the dextro form. The racemic form is difficult to crystallize and usually comes in a powder form. However the levo form (Vick Inhalers) and the dextro form (Ice) crytallizes into shards. If you ever let the meth evaporate in a spoon, you will notice that racemic meth looks like small circles, with spokes radiating from the center to the circle. Dextro meth crystals are not round, they radiate to the right and look like a fan, fanning to the right. The levo crystals fan to the left. Because of this, meth made from l-ephedrine or pseudoephedrine (both the same) produces the dextro isomer of methamphetamine and the crystalline form either looks like grains of clear salt or shards, due to the fanning of the crystals.

    Because the isomers are not mixed in a 50/50 ratio and is completely dextro, the crystals are a clear rocks or shards resembling ICE. So people started calling it Ice. However, 4-methylaminorex has the distinct honor of being the first chemical to be called Ice. It also depends on how one adds the HCl to his/her oil. If it is gassed, it will form crystals resembling ice. If it is dried when scraped up with a widget, or similar device it will be in the shard form, clear and glistening. Some just add dilute HCl until it's neutral. Every different way forms a different type of final product. The best being rocks, that are clear or shards because of their haphazard shape. Another name for 4-methylaminorex is U4Euh. Euphoria. Yes, Vicks Inhalers still have l-metamfetamine in them. In the beginning, the ingredients read l-desoxyephedrine. Don't do them, the high sucks ass. It's very physical and grimy, no mental alertness. IMO

    salgoud
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  8. emsdadbr

    emsdadbr Newbie

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    My neighbor has been paying close attention to the bottom of his glass pipe...The ice he had over the weekend came back with straight spokes possibly fanning to the right....But todays has been circles...Very intersting...We will see what its like till its gone
     
  9. salgoud

    salgoud

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    Yes, the crystals fanning to the right is d-methamphetamine and the round dried crystals that are round and radiate spokes from the center is dl-methamphetamine. It is interesting isn't it. However, the former is Ice. The isomer d-methamphetamine has taken the name of Ice over. 4-methylaminorex is hardly ever seen these days.

    salgoud
     
  10. alaskan

    alaskan Newbie

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    Swim's usually heard powder and shards called meth, called the low quality powder shit crank and the shards ice or crystal
    only seen crank once up here tho lol more shards goin around
     
  11. salgoud

    salgoud

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    That's not surprising, since the precursor chemicals used today create d-meth (ice, shards). Hardly anyone produces dl-meth (crank) these days. I'm sure in Alaska they would only want to import the best, even though I feel the dl form balances out the experience.

    To know what one has is very easy. Just put a couple of drops of water on the powder or shards and place it in a spoon to dry. Round, overlapping crystals with striations coming from the middle is dl-meth, and crystals fanning to the right is d-meth. I don't think anyone is really messing with Vicks Inhalers, which contains l-meth. I have to admit, however, I use Vicks Inhalers as directed to keep my nose nicely open and breathable. They really dilate the nose well. Just a note: if one takes the cotton out of the plastic delivery system, and the police find it on one, a person would be charged with "Possession of a Scheduled II Controlled Substance" even though they are available OTC.

    salgoud
     
  12. sasha1023

    sasha1023 Newbie

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    In our area there is meth and ice but they are different. I am not a chemist just seen it. meth is the breakdown of the pills and cooked called "R & B" Ice is made in a cooler or fish tank with no pills no cooking but is buried for 30 days and becomes a fungus and comes out as crystal shards. From doing some research regarding Ice they sometimes call it easter bunny dope aka ice or string dope. Supposely created in Hawaii to be used as a cut for meth but found out you could get a simular high from it. Ice is suppose to have more rush and less leg.
     
  13. ImWithTheDJ

    ImWithTheDJ

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    ice is the most popular form of meth.
     
  14. wanita

    wanita Silver Member

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    When my cat used to do it...he'd heard people call it meth, ice, crank, tina, the bitch. maybe those names used to represent different quality, but lately the names got mixed up. In my area, the gay community calls it "tina" or "the bitch". The preppy college students call it "ice" cuz according to them 'ice' is the clear looking glass, higher quality meth. My cat referred it with whatever name suits whomever he was hanging out with at that time.
     
  15. salgoud

    salgoud

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    This is one I never heard of. I also though they just dried the neutralize solution in a microwave. I have never heard that meth become a fungus and comes out crystal shards. Ice is d-meth or a form of aminorex. Currently, d-meth is called Ice. Crystals can be formed in various ways. Whether it is in shards or crystals, the way to find out if one has Ice, is to let a small solution dry in a spoon, if the crystalline form left over after it dries looks like a fan fanning to the right, it is d-meth (or possibly some other chemical that acts the same way in this fanning type pattern - perhaps Benzylamine.)

    Where did you hear this from, friends, a periodical, a book or on the internet. I would like to review this. Yes crystals can be formed on strings in a supersaturated solution of d-meth.

    Burying it might not let it dry and keep too much humidity in the aquarium. Super labs can't wait 30 days to get their product out. It is a daily regimen that must be kept up because of the demand in the U.S. You might be thinking of the cut benzylamine, that is cut with d-meth and is a slight stimulant in itself. I am a Chemist, and I never heard of meth turned into a fungus then one harvest shards. I just want people to get solid information, not hear say.

    salgoud
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  16. sasha1023

    sasha1023 Newbie

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    Like I said I am not a chemist. Brother Llama made this stuff from a recipe from an old head. Look on internet for Hawaii Ice. Also look at Gideons Guide however I think this forum is closed but still there a bit confusing tho. Also zone 68 web site. This stuff has no ephedrine in it. They use, well guess I can say but have ingredients and they are legal to buy. The trick is to find and tweak the recipe. Also search string dope and aka Easter bunny dope. In our neck of the woods, and I hate to say it, but we seem to be the state with a very high usage and creation. Since the pills are hard to get, this is the next thing. But it is true in Hawaii they did make this stuff for cut until they figured out you got a buzz off it. Much easier to make and less expensive. More easily to hide. It is a fungus growing on the strings. Which has to be cleaned with acetone. But once the living fungus hits air it is not living that's why short shelf life. They are dipping gun bluing on the strings that's why you you have to clean it. Also muriatic acid, activated charcoal and industrial strength ammonia or ammonia nitrate (I believe) You cannot do blue ice. It has to be crystal clear shards. Now there are several ways to make it but what I understand you can do the strings or bury a cooler with empty dark brown beer bottles in it and the shards will also grow up the beer bottles and you don't need the strings. It must be completely sealed no air can get in. And really no sense in digging it up but after 27 to 30 days. It has a shelf life first 3 days after hitting oxygen is great but after 14 days and sometimes can last to 30 but not likely. it is still good but not as potent. And when I say potent I mean it does not have that heavy intense speedy feeling. It comes out as crystal shards as clear as can be and the clearer the better, no cut. I think why I like it is because it is not so hard on your body. Good rush easy comedown. Where meth has so many stimulants in it, it stays in your body longer and makes it to me more tense. However you would think it would be cheaper but it cost the same. Everyone getting on band wagon. I imagine the cooks bury a batch a week to keep up with demand. The more I find out the more I find people here prefer it. The rush is much better and can last longer. It is not a myth. It is real. I tried the other and it really does have a better rush but much better or mellower come down. Maybe with this info as a chemist you can figure it out.. Definitely not trying to steer anyone wrong. But it would be quite hard for people to figure the recipe out, unless you are a chemist.
     
  17. Mindless

    Mindless Gold Member

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    Here's a thread on 'string dope' for you Salgoud. I'm not sure if all members will have access, it's in the methamphetamine forum but concerns drug production.

    I found this on Urban Dictionary, probably not the most robust source but it's all I can find for now:

    "a flash dope from of methamphetamine that requires little skill to cook. String Dope is generally cooked using activated charcoal, gun bluing, and sudsless ammonia in an airtight cooler, where the methamphetamines will grow on unwaxed strings like stalactites over a period of 14-31 days. String Dope generally has a half-life of 5-7 days after being exposed to UV light. "

    I doubt this is a living fungus, but would cheerfully admit to being wrong if someone knows better. A fungus is a living organism that requires oxygen, although in some cases very little. I'm not sure that sealed containers would contain sufficient oxygen.
     
  18. Mick Mouse

    Mick Mouse Palladium Member

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    Now, my chemistry isn't up to the level that it used to be back in the day when I was still actively "in the game", but I have to disagree here. There may be similarities in the manufacturing process, but the precursors are different, with meth being ephedrine or pseudoephedrine, and 4-methylaminorex being based on PPA, if I'm not mistaken.


    In no way do I see how you can consider this as D-Meth! I was involved for quite a time in the manufacture of meth in both d- and racemic, and even with the conversion of l- to d- on the odd occasion, and I have never heard any of my contemporaries or peers refer to 4-mar as d-meth. This is not self incrimination, by the way, as I have already done prison time for my "errors in thinking" (as the judge so quaintly put it), so don't go crazy on me y'all!

    I would truly like to hear your take on this matter, as I am somewhat familiar with your background (from reading your posts) and I believe your chemistry knowledge to be sound, but I feel you may have made an error here. Please enlighten me!

    P.S. bit of history-4-mar came from Southeast Asia by way of Hawaii and percolated there for a time before it crossed over to the mainland. It is still a huge problem there as well. I do not mean to imply that 4-mar was created there, but that is where it was commercialized and introduced to the western world.
     
  19. Phenoxide

    Phenoxide Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Methamphetamine is not a fungus, nor are there naturally occurring fungi that will synthesize it (though in theory such a fungus could be created in the lab). What is described is a very slow crystallization process and doesn't mean anything is living.

    However it's also worth noting that the general consensus is that the method described in the thread you link to that involves black oxide is complete bullshit. Reminds me of the equally dubious 'fish tank' method.
     
  20. Pinkavvy

    Pinkavvy Platinum Member & Advisor

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    This thread makes My head hurt. So much misinformation out there. I thought we were done with threads like this years ago?