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Snorting - why is snorting oxycodone so amazing??

Discussion in 'Oxycodone' started by KonvictedPKU, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. KonvictedPKU

    KonvictedPKU Silver Member

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    Now, my Spartan is an avid opiate enthusiast and partakes in both oral and nasal routes but la
    tely has been really craving a nice fat line of oxycodone up his nose and finally got it after 2 dry weeks. boy did he rave about how it rocked. why is it so much better to rail sometimes? there are times for the oral route but isnt it wonderful to snort one once and awhile? :)
     
  2. baZING

    baZING Newbie

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    I'm sorry if this comes off as rude, but what is the purpose of this thread other than borderline drug-glorification? We try to discourage such things on DF, as the glorification of recreational drugs obviously does not present a comprehensive picture of the realities of use.

    To answer your question in an objective way, and I suppose you probably know this, sometimes it's better to snort your pills because it kicks in quicker. That's about it. Even so, you're getting approximately 30% less of the drug in your system than simply taking it by mouth. Then again, despite the numbers, some people develop a fixation to snorting much the way IVDU (intravenous drug users) may develop a needle fixation over time.

    That's really all there is to say. Sorry if I seem like I'm being a wet blanket, but I simply can't figure out what good this thread could serve other than a bunch of opiate users waxing poetic about how much fun snorting oxy is... and there are other places besides DF that are far more appropriate for those kinds of discussions.
     
  3. KonvictedPKU

    KonvictedPKU Silver Member

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    none taken, it was an easily misunderstood statement. just wondering if there is a good explanation for why it is so different than oral. thanks for the reply, ill be more careful in the future
     
  4. Roll1N

    Roll1N Newbie

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    I agree with baZING.

    But honestly, as good as railing oxy is, swim would still rather take them orally anyday. Last at least 5x longer, and you don't feel like shit after the high is gone. It's like you get a comedown when your high goes away after snorting oxy. But taking it orally, swim has never had a comedown.
     
  5. baZING

    baZING Newbie

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    Oh, well, if that's all you were trying to figure out then the answer given in the second paragraph of my post is basically why. The major reasons snorting is so different than oral use is the speed of onset and, IMO, the ritualistic aspects of insufflation. Once you have a "routine" down there are many little things that can enhance the high; it can be akin to a Pavlov's Dog type conditioning effect. Use the same credit card, the same mirror, the same straw (etc.) and your body and mind eventually begins to associate those things with an impending high. This can definitely be true to an extent with any ROA, but seems to be especially applicable to injecting and snorting. In addition, when you swallow oxycodone, it undergoes first-pass metabolism in the liver. I believe (but I am by no means an expert on this) that snorting bypasses first-pass metabolism as the drug is absorbed directly through the mucous membranes and into the bloodstream for a much faster and harder onset.

    So, the conditioning can definitely play a role, but the biggest reason is the faster onset and the bypassing of first-pass metabolism. Even though the percentage of the drug (in the case of oxycodone) that is absorbed is greater via oral use, some users find they can use the same dose via snorting because the effects may become noticeable in less than half the time when swallowing.

    On a different note, thank you for the polite response and I'm sorry my other reply was a bit pissy. As I'm sure you can understand, opiates are a particularly risky drug to be messing around with in terms of the risk for addiction, so whenever possible it's good to balance the good and the bad when posting. Obviously, if you simply have a question, you can just ask it without needing to provide an "Opiates can be bad!" disclaimer.

    I hope between my two posts that helped answer your question, but if anything is still unclear, feel free to ask anything else you're not sure of.
     
  6. kickout1234kickout

    kickout1234kickout Newbie

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    The good thing about snorting oxys is that it takes less to feel the effects. I snorted a 5mg dose which feels like a 15 or 20 mg dose orally. Just think of the money and pills you save from snorting it. My only concern is if it is safe or not.
     
  7. baZING

    baZING Newbie

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    Kickout,

    What you said is definitely not true for everyone. Some people find they need much more oxycodone intranasally over oral use because so much less gets into your blood steam. Compare a 10mg dose taken both ways. Because the oral BA is so high, about 8.5mg of that dose is actually active in your system when taken by mouth. Snort that same dose, and only 5-6mg (give or take) could possibly get into your blood in an ideal situation. Depending on how much filler is in the pills, or if one is senseless enough to snort an oxy/APAP combination, that amount could be substantially less. There are also a number of other factors that influence nasal aborption, such as moisture, snorting techique, how much powder ends up right in the back of the throat by mistake and thus gets absorbed in the stomach, etc. It is objectively much more efficient to take it orally.

    Because the onset is so much quicker than oral use, however, some people (like you) do find they need less to get the same effect. I am simply pointing out that this is by no means universal, and in fact, I'd hazard a guess that more people find they need an equal dose to oral, or possibly even greater. I am personally not really a snorter when it comes to oxy specifically, but in the experience of many of my friends, tolerance will may rise faster if snorting is one's primary ROA. That's only anecdotal evidence, though.
     
  8. kickout1234kickout

    kickout1234kickout Newbie

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    I'm not buying the BA thing. If that is true then why did I snort half a pill and feel the effects in 5 min. then snort the other half and was as messed up as I would be on 15 mg orally. 5 mg orally would never do that to me, even crushed up and juicing up with Grape Fruit juice. 5 mg orally and I would actually not feel it at all. The pill was M 05 52. It has no apa. Maybe that had something to with it.
     
  9. baZING

    baZING Newbie

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    The reason that it can take more for some people to get high when taking by mouth is the length of time it takes to kick in versus intranasal administration. Once you move onto other ROAs that take significantly less time to kick in, it becomes more and more difficult to get as satisfactory results from oral use. I know a few IVDUs (intravenous drug users) who literally can no longer get high from taking oxycodone by mouth no matter how much they take. Obviously, IVing is even worse than snorting in this regard, but it still gives you an idea. While not a scientific explanation, I would think that in a sense your body and mind become used to much quicker gratification. The gradual onset of an oral high lacks the rush of snorting and plugging (and even greater rush of intravenous use), so it seems like much less. In addition, the ritualistic nature of snorting can provide its own sort of anticipation charge, further accentuating the drugs. Snorting is not subject to certain factors that can greatly impact the strength of an oral high, such as how recently you've eaten and the acidity of your stomach.

    That oxycodone's oral BA is much higher than its intranasal BA is not an opinion; it is a simple fact. Regardless, you are entitled not to "buy" it though I explained fairly thoroughly why it can be possible to achieve greater results intranasally despite this fact. It is well understood that the oral bioavailability of oxycodone is somewhere in the range of 85% +/- 5%, which is among the highest oral BAs of all opioids. Because intranasal administration is not considered an appropriate or standard ROA for medicinal use of oxycodone, there have been far fewer studies done exploring the amount absorbed when taken via that route. Even still, the few sources that exist tend to agree on around 60% +/10% for intranasal BA. Seeing as the oral BA is already approaching 90%, it would be impossible for any ROA to have much better absorption... Even with IV use, only about 15% more is absorbed.

    I am my phone as we have no power as a result of the hurricane; if you are interested in seeing some studies you should look it up. If you would like I can return with them once we have power and thus Internet so I can go on the computer, though we're likely to be out for a number of days.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  10. AGV10

    AGV10 Titanium Member

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    That's because as others have said the Oxy gets to opiod receptors quicker and in greater concentration than it would if it were been absorbed through the gut membrane - so long as it has been crushed up properly i.e. into a very fine powder (almost talcum like if at all possible).

    I would also like to add that I concurr with baZINGs' contribution earlier: there are loads of forums where addiction and abuse can be glorified. On the DF forum, while folk openly share detail about abuse, you will find the lean (for lack of a better word) is towards discouragement and harm reduction.

    To answer your question regards snorting - is it safe or not?
    Nope - taking Oxy in any way other than pluggin' it up your anus or swallowing it (whole or chewed up), is not safe. There is a whole load of stuff in Oxy tabs other than the actual active opioid ingredient, like stabilizers and binders, which do not break down and get absorbed and then metabolize out of your system, but which will build up and accumulate in your lungs. Yes, it will take a lot of snorting and considerable time before you are likely to start experiencing the negative effects of accumulated foreign material in your lungs, but like coal dust in the lungs of coal miners, and tar in the lungs of smokers, this material is ultimately going to impact your health negatively and in much the same way as dust or tar would - by way of reducing the efficiency with which 02 and CO2 are exchanged across the lung membranes, and ultimately the rate at which your snorted Oxy will be absorbed at

    By all means use Oxy if you wish - I use it day in day out - but stick to using it orally. If you want to increase the buzz, chew the tab up (if it is modified release) and take it with a slice or 2 or fatty bacon and half a glass of lemon or lime juice - fat and high Ph increase both the speed and the level Oxy is absorbed at, albeit still not as fast as when snorted.

    Last but not least is the fact that ultimately you will find the buzz from snorting Oxy is going to fade and you will be taking it more and more just to feel "normal'. if you haven't reached that stage yet, take my word for it, its' coming.

    Do your best to stay away from snorting.

    All the best.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  11. kickout1234kickout

    kickout1234kickout Newbie

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    The lung theory seems plausible. Thanks for the harm reduction tip. However, why would the BA amount matter when you still get high off of considerably less? Technically speaking it is lower than orally, but when you get higher off of less intranasally vs. orally; why does it really matter how much less is being absorbed? It is still taking less of the drug to feel its effects.
     
  12. baZING

    baZING Newbie

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    The number matters for a variety of reasons. It matters for people who actually need these drugs for pain, because more in the system mean more relief even if it takes longer. It matters for people who use these drugs solely for pleasure, because more in your system usually amounts to more of a high. I have already explained to you more than once that not everyone finds snorting the same amount (or less) will result in a better high than simply eating it. While it is not unheard of for some people to need less when snorting than oral use, the fact that you are able to achieve a better high with ONE THIRD of your oral dose is quite unusual.

    Also, to be frank, the other reason the actual numbers matter is that anecdotal evidence is only worth so much. Many of us prefer to back things up with science here whenever possible.
     
  13. N0rthrnCa707

    N0rthrnCa707 Newbie

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    Think about it like this:
    Oxy crushed up is like a muscle car. Oxy left alone is like a hybrid Prius. Gas would be bioavailability.
    You only have one gallon of gas(pretend.)
    If you crush your oxy, or drive your muscle car, you do not get far on that gallon of gas, but it was a fun, fast ride.
    Now if you drive your Prius, or take your oxy normally, you still get a ride, not as fun, but that gallon of gas will get you much further.
     
  14. sweetnsexy

    sweetnsexy Newbie

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    If you eat them and than snort them 25 minutes later you will have no comedown.
     
  15. kickout1234kickout

    kickout1234kickout Newbie

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    I fail to see how it is unusual to achieve a dose equivalent to a normal oral dose when all my friends have the same effects as I do (7 people). We all snort oxycodone to save on our supplies or just to simply add that extra boost while under its influence. Perhaps you have not done it. Or maybe you do not know how to snort oxycodone correctly. Luckly I have specialized in this area of oxycodone and can provide useful knowlege on the proper way to sniffing oxycodone:

    You do not snort the whole pill at once. That will waste it. You snort a 4th of it every 2 or 3 min. per nostril. This releases a substantial amount of the drug into the blood stream very rapidly and insures none is wasted by having an overloaded amount in the nostril at one time. Also when you snort it, do not snort extremely hard. You need to gently sniff it. Snorting it too hard will cause some to go to the back of the throat and drip out into your stomach; thus wasting the product.

    Though technically there is less oxycodone in the system by snorting the drug... if a user desires to use oxycodone for recreational purposes, one can snort the drug to achieve the desired effects all while saving pills.
     
  16. baZING

    baZING Newbie

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    Well, I'm glad that now that you've done a case study of 8 people you have all the answers we could ever possibly need on the matter.

    Considering your last three posts have said essentially the same thing, I'm going to bow out of this circular argument. You do what you want to do with your pills; that's your choice. I'm simply stating the facts over anecdotal and highly subjective opinions on the matter.

    If I were not experienced on this issue, as well as knowledgeable from a theoretical standpoint, I would not have chimed in on the OP in the first place. Clearly this is going nowhere, though.

    The original reason I replied was to answer "why is snorting oxycodone so amazing??" With "it's not for everyone," but at this point with you drifting into snorting techniques, we're getting well off topic and I don't want to contribute to derailing things any further than I already have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012
  17. AGV10

    AGV10 Titanium Member

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    Not sure if I can concur with you on that point.

    Bioavailibility is higher from snorting - why?
    Because the Oxy will have access to receptors without having to pass through the liver i.e. it will not be subject to first pass metabolism, which it is if taken orally.

    Note - one of the design criteria of Oxy was that it should not be affected by first pass metabolism - actauly it is when taking orally, but to no-where near the same extent first pass impacts most other opiods taken orally. This is one reason why Oxy is so effective.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  18. sterling77

    sterling77 Iridium Member

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    "The results of this study show that oxycodone is rapidly and rather effectively absorbed from the nasal mucosa but the interindividual differences are large. The intranasal route may in some cases be an attractive alternative to oral or parenteral administration of opioid analgesics. However, because of large interindividual differences, it is prudent to titrate the dose of intranasal oxycodone individually."

    Source: Pharmacokinetic comparison of intravenous and intranasal administration of oxycodone. 1997. Takala, Kaasalainen, Seppala, Kalso and Olkkola.


    Some other aspects to consider are that intranasal administration typically has a higher C-max value along with a smaller T-max. Meaning, a higher and quicker peak, even if the bioavailabilities are similar. For example, IV hydromorphone has a C-max that is ten times greater than intranasal. Yet, the bioavailability of intranasal is something like 50%, versus the 100% of IV hydromorphone. Additionally, the nasal membranes do have various metabolic enzymes that can cause a sort of first-pass metabolism effect. I don't believe that we fully understand the effect this has on the overall effects of intranasal oxycodone.
     
  19. AGV10

    AGV10 Titanium Member

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    Pretty much in line with what I thought ........ I like your inclusion of T Max & C Max (seldom understood, often misunderstood)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  20. dduttonnc

    dduttonnc Newbie

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    Why don't people just take meds as RXed?? My doctor prescribes me 9D, 30 mg oxycodone's per month, and 60, 40 mg Oopana per month for pain.. Opana Controls and reduces my constant level of pain while oxycodone controls my pain when it spikes.

    I'm definitely tolerant. I'm definitely addicted. However, I always take my medication as prescribed. I don't Dr. shop or pharmacy shop. I go to one doctor and get one set of pain medications. I've been on them so long that I no longer get a high. They just help reduce the pain. Granted they are also FAR less effective than 2 yrs ago. My doctor rotates my meds every few yrs to help with tolerance.


    Keep in mind one thing… A 30 mg oxycodone has the same amount of medicine that a 30 mg OxyContin has. The only differences the OxyContin distributes the 30 mg over a set period of time. This does not account for bioavailability which is usually 20 to 40% depending on the person, and how much stomach acid they make or do not make. So on average, if a person takes a 30 mg oxycodone pill, only 9 mg actually makes it into the bloodstream. The same goes for OxyContin… Only 9 mg is distributed over a long period of time...about 8 hrs. Vs only 3-4 for IR oxycodone.

    So unless somebody is very non-tolerant… Even if they were to crush a 30 mg OxyContin into little bits and release it all at once, it's not going to do them any harm – especially if they are used to taking 30mg oxycodones.

    Where the danger comes in… Is when someone is given a prescription for a high dose, time released opiate, and the person is not tolerant, or has not taken IR DOSAGES. In those cases, flooding the body with 9-18mg of oxy can produce an OD in non tolerant ppl

    Now for myself… I could (and I have when in agony) take 3, 30 mg oxycodone IR at once, and it would relieve my pain, but I wouldn't even get high from it, etc.... That's The equivalent of 27 mg of oxycodone IV

    That's the highest dose I've ever taken… And I probably would not push it any higher than that.

    dduttonnc added 5 Minutes and 10 Seconds later...

    What irritates me, is the people that abuse those drugs. The people who go to multiple doctors and multiple pharmacies and buy it on the streets… That's what causes all the strict laws to come into place and makes it harder for people who actually need the meds more difficult to get a Dr to write an RX. Plus we get ER versions filled with God knows what crap to prevent abuse. If people would stop abusing these meds… Then there would be no need for all these chemicals and anti-abuse stuff to be added to our medicine
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2015