Read through this feed. Am new to nootropics. Have researched the racetam family and ordered choline bitartrate with primiracetam using doses I've read from multiple feeds. My experience with this was a heavy feeling in my head. No positive reaction if anything it made me More agitated and short fused. May have not been the real deal I cannot say as I've only ordered from one source. Recently purchased modalert just this week. 200mg on Monday eve. Again just a cloudy heavy head feeling. 200mg again the morning after. No boost to my day. Today after a 36 hour period of not taking it I tried a 100mg dose. Right now 3 hrs on no positive expected effect that I read 99% of people are receiving. My modalert source said I'm the first client he's had that feels like this. Has anyone felt this too? Should I continue small doses of 100mg a day until I see positive effects? If not has anyone got any suggestions.
Substance: Modafinil (Modvigil) Body weight and gender: 85kg, Male Dosage: 1 x 200mg oral Duration: 1 day Onset: 30 min Plateau: 2 hours Aftereffects: 18 hours Effects: alertness, perhaps greater focus/motivation Settings: home - reading, writing, working on documents, making phone calls Side effects: palpitations, headache, increased perspiration, cold hands, dry throat, shift in visual perception, unwanted wakefulness after 13 hours, increase in slight tinnitus in right ear. Hangover: headache, symptoms associated with poor night’s sleep, hot ears! My mate Marmite is an academic and is interested in Modafinil as an aid to enhanced focus and productivity. He got hold of some generic Modafinil - ‘Modvigil’ 200mg tablets and set aside a day to test it. He took a single tablet at 10.30am and noticed after about 5 minutes a slight tingle and very mild rush, similar to previous experiences with amphetamine, but at a much lower level. He worked for a few hours, reading documents, note taking, answering emails, but not in a noticeably more focused way than usual. However, he did notice that his hands became very cold and sweaty and that his heart rate had increased. Lunchtime came and went - Marmite didn’t really feel like eating. He tackled some work in the afternoon that, ordinarily, he might have put off. He felt more gregarious and witty and sent several tweets and made some phone calls. As the day wore on he noticed some irregular heart rhythms and felt as if a band were being tightened around his head. This later developed into a hot headache, for which he took 400mg of ibuprofen. He also noticed a slight effect on his vision - an increased sharpness and brightness, reminiscent of the very early stages on LSD. 13 hours after consumption Marmite went to bed, but found he couldn’t sleep - this was just like the tail end of an amphetamine experience. He had a restless, semi-sleepless night and felt wrung-out in the morning. Marmite was disappointed by his experience - his reading about Modafinil had led him to expect little or no body load. He had a residual headache the next day and occasional recurrence of the arrhythmia. Two days later he still had a slightly fuzzy head and a dry scratchy throat. He wonders if he has a particular sensitivity to this drug and, if so, whether or not he would have a better experience with a smaller dose, and would be interested to hear the views of other users.
I have been using Modalert on and off for a couple of years. Has been very handy to SWIM to get through busy periods of work. SWIM only uses 50mg at a time to give a slight lift but avoid panic attacks. I have now noticed a few things. After prolonged use for a few days, even with 8hrs rest through the night, the Modalert left SWIM awake but somewhat lacking in pure concentration. I would be overly thinking situations and struggling to come to a definitive decision in some cases. Time would fly pass at an unbelievable rate. One of the physical symptoms that I have noticed and is a bit alarming (well for some) is that I have had considerable hair loss while taking Modalert. I am at the age where this could be natural but When stopping for a period of 3 months the hair loss also stopped. Then starting up again - the hair loss returned. There is also a definite change in the hair texture it becomes much coarser that usual. SWIM also gets cold feet when taking Modalert.
Ritalin IS a lot better than Modafinil, in terms of increasing concentration, elevating mood, improved memory. It turns you into a superman, a workaholic, an unstoppable machine. However, the use of Ritalin almost always comes with a crash hours later, which is not the case in Modafinil use. Modafinil is merely a drug that suppresses sleepiness, it can be used as a nootropic to some extent but it really doesn't boost your mental capabilities all that much.
I have some questions on dosing : If I take dose of 200mg in the morning then Does it mean, that effect of modafinil will increased compared to 100mg ? or Does it mean, that the effects will last for a longer period of time so double time or even longer than at 100mg dose ? Or both ? Also, If I take 200mg all at once in the morning (like at 8-9 AM) and if I spread out 200mg into two doses (100 in the morning and another 100 around noon) - Will be the effect of modafinil same ? Or what would be the difference in effects in case of this example of dosing ? Thank you in advance for explanation
In theory - yes. The effects will definitely be stronger, but I find that there isn't really a point if your goal is just to counter sleepiness. IMO it is not practical to take a high dose (200mg isn't exactly high, but 100mg usually does the job anyway unless you're extremely sleep deprived) as the side effects would be more significant. If you want that extra edge for an exam, go for other stimulants like caffeine/ritalin instead - but do bear in mind the combination of modafinil & caffeine could induce increased anxiety & aggressiveness which is significantly worse than caffeine alone in some people (personal experience) Personally, I rarely take a full pill (which is usually 200mg) unless I really need it as that kind of dosage gives me nausea & sometimes headache, which defies the whole point of staying up to do an essay/study for a exam as the side effects are too much of a distraction. Also, taking 100mg instead of 200mg allows you to take a nap when you really desire (it is a good idea sometimes as even if you're still mentally alert, you body is extremely tired + sore eyes) When you have 200mg of modafinil in your system it's usually impossible to take a nap... Trust me, a 30 minutes nap is REALLY needed when you have been awake for 40+ hours straight studying. In general, the longer you have been awake, the higher of a dose you need to take in order to achieve the same effectiveness.
See post #66 in this thread....my take is that 200mg. all at once no way gives "double" effects, maybe slightly increased effects though than 100mg. and slightly longer effects(an hour or two) but NOT "double time", no way. As posted in #66, take 100mg first, then 100mg. 3-4 hours later for longer duration of effects, even then no way "double time". For me, 100mg.= 4-6 hours, no problems sleeping with this stuff. Need to try 300mg. and 400mg. doses but it's mucho dinero $$$. Better yet given the expense of this stuff, what could potentiate 100 mg. to feel like 400 mg?
I've documented various dosing scenarios, in which I kept a detailed log of effectiveness, etc... First of all, I think the difference between 200 mg and 400 mg is immense... that is, I find 400 mg to have the cleanest effects - your mind can drive like it's tweaking, but the body gets to be spared for the most part. Not to mention its novel pharmacokinetics profile hasn't revealed any major affinities for the storage of neurotransmitters that amphetamines (and many other hard drugs) would have completely depleted. Subsequent doses start to shift away from enhancing the mind and can become physically unpleasant at 600 mg or above... and with no significant pharmacological tolerance occurring, you can take the same dose every time... after 16 months of chronic use I've actually discovered my optimum dose to be no more than 400 mg, twice daily (800 mg / 24 hours) - tops. It can work in concert with caffeine and other stimulants... though I would never suggest/try that... Nicotine, of all the available drugs (OTC, RX, street drugs, etc...), seems to amplify the cognition effects, why also reducing occurrences of nervousness or anxiety. Sucks hard when you've trying to quit smoking - I don't need excuses for relapse when dealing with the most wickedly addictive substance around - meth and heroin were easier kicks than nicotine IMO. ...now I'm going to have a smoke lol. Peace, & sorry for the ramble, Cat catecholamines added 14 Minutes and 32 Seconds later... I actually have some credible information I could share that states the exact opposite of that. I like talking biochem and nueropharmacology a lot, so I'm willing to review the pharmacokinetics of Ritalin, amphetamines, and modafinil to emphasize how dead wrong some of your statements are. ~ Catecholamines
Perhaps physiological differences in the H3 receptor are to blame?It's mechanism of action is not well-known, so it may act as an antagonist in some people, reducing histamine levels in the brain.
Whatever it's true mechanism of action is, it's a known CYP450 isomeric enzyme inducer, which is why larger doses have no measurable benefit (self-limiting qualities). Also, though it's classified in the US as a schedule IV stimulant, it's not sympathomemtic nor does it exhibit any of the typical stimulant properties found in amphetamines or cocaine. It has no peripheral nervous system effects, and typically (in normal doses), will not cause any extra-pyramidal effects. Increases in heart rate, blood pressure, etcetera is not typical. I've found over the years that I can fall asleep BETTER after a night-time dose (400 - 600 mg) than had I only taken a day time dose. Something physiological about the brain's sleep/wake cycle seems to allow for what appears to be counter-intuitive effects on general stimulation. It's basically my bread and butter...
Interesting, I actually didn't know why it had such a large LD50. On the not sharing a mechanism of action with amphetamines, I agree.Cocaine, however, shares a common pharmacology with modafinil in that they're both dopamine and norepinephrine transporter ligands.Here's a really interesting study about it: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/319/2/561.full
I can't load that link for some reason yet (bad internet connection I think) - but will definitely examine it later. What's important to note is even though modafinil has shown increases in extracelluar catecholamines, it's action seems purely post-synaptic in that regard. Cocaine is also a marked serotonin inducer, which, along with it's other effects, leads to me to realization that the god-aweful crash induced by cocaine is perpetuated by our brains own defense mechanisms. Action on the CYP450 enzymes by modafinil seems to allow the brain a steady and slow decent from the "high." As well, the extreme half life of modafinil (comparable to amphetamines), is not indicitive of a crash. Feelings of depression, etc, are not substantial in modafinil. It truly is a novel drug in its own regard... but I agree in essence with your point, and repsect your knowledge about pharmacology and pharmacokinetics. Hopefully I can access that link soon
I agree, it is a truly novel and promising drug. I was only able to get my hands on some a couple days ago, but was very surprised at it's price tag; It's not a cheap drug. I took 200mg the first day, which was a mistake to be honest.I was sweating, and the nausea/stomach discomfort was prominent, although I expect some tolerance would reduce side-effects. On the psychopharmacological effects of the drug, I can say Im satisfied.I had slept an average of 5 hours a night for 4 nights in a row and was exhausted.1:30h. after administration all traces of fatigue were gone, although a significant increase in focus and concentration was lacking.This may change as I gather further experience with it. Robo
Starting a modafinil regimen does require some 'tinkering' as far as dosing. This does not mean that anyone should exceed prescribed amounts... Realistically, a starting dose of 50 - 100mg should be tried, regardless of your size or prior drug tolerances. If you planned on taking it daily, you should aim for 100mg a day (tops!) throughout the first week or two. Modafinil will require a pharmacological, dispositional, and behavioral tolerance to some extent before the psycho-therapeutic effects can be experienced, without the physical symptoms that one may experience, and dislike, when starting a regimen with it. Taking 200 - 400mg in acute, intermittent situations; such as a "study drug," or worse, a "party drug," will often lead to overwhelming and uncomfortable spikes in post-synaptic epinephrine and dopamine... Taking more than 400mg while still naive to it's effects is almost always a bad decision... So, would you and could you maintain complete control over the amount you take, or are you just likely to 'chip' doses around from day to day (200mg one day, 600mg three days later)? These are general questions for all potential modafinil users. Consistent, titrated doses will allow the body to quickly accommodate the increased brain activity. I think of it a bit like I would LSD, cannabis, mescaline, etc... If you are willing to pay a little up front in the form of some nagging physical responses, then you may establish a new equilibrium in which those initial costs are all but forgotten. The times I see it fail to improve someone is when they are attempting to attain a cocaine or amphetamine like rush, and are not patient and disciplined in administering it as a supplement - lowering doses at times when it stops encouraging vigilance, and starts replacing it. The price of these bad boys in the US is un-fucking-believable! A 30 day supply of 200mg tablets can push a thousand bucks or even more (I've seen $1200). That's the system we have - fixing Rx prices at a criminal level (IMO). So.... if you are planning on dealing directly with Cephalon to acquire their 'legit' Provigil (the only legal form available in the US), then maybe you should consider alternatives. I wouldn't know - and can't know - what all these alternatives are exactly. Apparently they exist, and that's as much as I would ever say on the matter. What I do know is this: Cephalon has a program where it will cover you by sending 90, 200mg tablets every 3 months for free! That is 200 mg a day, and is ideal when taken once in the morning (w/ or w/out food), and not taken multiple times a day as one with control issues would likely start doing. The truth is, with a 12 - 15 hour half-life, you can find a way to accomplish what you need to in a given day. This was initially addressed to RoboCodeine, but soon evolved into a PSA lol. I know you don't need the drugs 101 lecture that this slid into, but I have to make sure that anyone who reads this understands that modafinil is a drug w/ abuse potential, and it would be wise not to put oneself in that position... ~ Cat ~
Sex: Male Age: 20 Height: 5"11 / 180cm Weight: 66kg / 145lbs Dose: 100mg Provigil Tried some modafinil for the first time this morning. Have been intrigued by its potential as a 'smart drug' or 'study drug' for a long time. Swallowed a 100mg pill about 9.30am, first effects were felt within 30 minutes. I'd had a pretty lousy sleep the night before and was feeling pretty shattered, but I felt wide awake within half an hour of taking. Sat down to do some revision for my exams, have been doing ever since. Feel extremely focussed and single-minded, not easily distracted. It makes me focus so intently on one thing almost to the exclusion of everything else, so much so that I almost don't notice what's going on around me. Of course it's not a 'wonder drug', I don't feel any more intelligent, and I haven't noticed any major improvement in memory or anything like that, but the I have definitely noticed an impressive increase in concentration. I still struggle with the same maths problems I do normally, but instead of getting frustrated with them and moving on to something else, I've found myself relentlessly working at them until I crack the problem. I haven't at all felt any boredom at any point, which I would normally on a solid day of revision. It's now roughly 2.15pm and I feel the effects are starting to wear off ever so slightly, but I still feel very focussed and driven to keep on working. I'm only writing this because I made myself have a short break for lunch In summary its definitely worth doing and has been an intriguing experience so far EDIT: Of course I should say I haven't had any negative side effects. No nausea, no headache, no anxiety, no jitters like you would get with caffeine UPDATE: It's now 3.50pm and I feel pretty much at baseline right now- still feel wide awake, but otherwise completely normal... The concentration has gone
I took this again today, same dosage and much the same experience although it didn't seem to last as long (took 100mg at 12.00, was back to baseline by ~16.00). Experienced some minor chest pains that may or may not have been related. I'm gonna try again tomorrow with the same dosage to see how I get on with doing it two days in a row, and to see if there's any tolerance issues. I'll give it a break for a few days after that, but I might experiment with 200mg on friday as well, will report back on how it all goes.
Some further updates on my modafinil experiences... I took 100mg again on Tuesday... and it didn't do much for me. I got the alertness and wakefulness but none of the concentration or focus. In addition, I also had a mild headache and a little nausea. So I'd be hesitant about doing it two days in a row again... Today I tried 200mg. I dosed at about 10.15am and first effects were felt within 30 minutes. However, the effects began to increase until they peaked around 12.30pm. I actually became very overstimulated, so much so that it distracted me from my work, which kind of defeated the object of taking the stuff! I became restless and would often lose myself in a train of thought, and then snap out of it to find myself wandering aimlessly around the house for no apparent reason. I felt full of energy, and had the urge to run around. I also experienced a strange compulsion to continually clench and unclench my fists as I was walking around. I felt like I wanted to socialise, but was on my own, so ended up texting loads of friends. I should also note I had a substantial mood lift- I'd had a terrible sleep the night before and when I got up early to work I felt like doing nothing of the sort, and was feeling rather sorry for myself, but about an hour after taking the modafinil I'd perked up completely and was undeniably in a really good mood. Not ecstatic or euphoric, but definitely noticeable. Whilst all of these was interesting and intriguing and somewhat fun, ultimately it was kind of counterproductive, as the whole point of trying it was to try and help me get some work done, which I wasn't doing. In addition, at about 2.30pm, the main cognitive effects started to wear off to leave just the wakefulness and alertness. I found this a bit disappointing, and experienced a temptation to redose which I resisted. I should also note I didn't really get any negative side effects other than I seemed to be extremely hungry all day no matter how much I ate. In summary, I think 200mg is probably overkill for my purposes, although it probably works for some people who are less sensitive to the effects. In addition, if you were using it often enough and tolerance was building up you might have to up the dosage, but I'm gonna stick with 100mg for the foreseeable future and avoid taking it two days in a row.
Just did modafinil for the first time 8 hours ago. I got them to awake from my mental and physical fatigue, since the internet speaks very highly of modafinil. I'm fairly active, horrible diet, off school/work for now, addicted to cigarettes, and trying to quit kratom. I don't do any other drugs (including alcohol). I weigh 165. I also have sleep apnea and depression, so I'm tired alot. I bought some online, and yesterday my friend did 100 mgs in front of me. He didn't seem like he felt much. So this morning I wake up, and take 150 mgs. I've been off kratom for 2 days now, so I'm very tired (even more so than usual). At first, I don't feel anything. 1 1/2 hours later, i begin to feel what I can compare to caffeine (large doses of caffeine). I don't feel any more "alert" mentally. I'm still tired and sluggish when it comes to thinking/talking. However, my body would never be able to fall asleep. I'm super wired physically. I can see how it's helpful for narcoleptics. Maybe they are fake pills, maybe my body just can't do nootropics (I felt nothing off piracatam and noopept), or maybe these are the effects and my expectations were just too high. I feel almost sluggish mentally, which isn't fun. I'll keep on trying them, as I have 45 or so more. But they won't help me in the area's I thought they would. I expected to be "turned on" mentally, instead of a strong coffee high. I'll use them if I need to stay up for whatever reason.
Age: mid 30's Sex: Male Dose: 200-600mg (600mg being the most consumed in a day) Duration: Taken at 6 am daily, still feel mild effects at 15:00 Use: general wakefulness, focus, motivation Side effects: nothing except headaches when over 400mg, sleeplessness. Long term: difficult to achieve orgasam (this only occurred after first months use) So far used daily for 3.5 months, individual was once a huge fan of ephedrine daily at 25-50mg daily for close to 10 years. Thoughts are that Modafinil is most closely related to the bronchodilator feeling of ephedrine with the mental stimulation of Ritalin. Hopefully this product is researched more to find the exact mechanism of action so that users and health practitioners can understand the safety of the chemical. Price is a factor, but if one can afford it is a great stimulant. I do have doubts about the addictive factor, one gets addicted to the feeling and although not a physical addiction there is a strong mental hook to the enhancement of mental and body function. Greatwhite
My good friend wanted me to update about his continued use of high doses of modafinil (1000mg-2000mg) on consecutive days, since his first experience report was quite some time ago, he sees. He is obviously a few years older than his last report, and in his late twenties. He weighs a bit less, probably 160lbs, not a huge difference. Height remains 5' 11". He still finds this to be very relaxing mentally, although it takes a few days to acclimate. The first few days he feels mild nausea and muscle tension, using Modalert now rather than Provigil. He also now experiences flushing somewhat pink, which he did not experience in his first report. Perhaps he's gotten more pale. Still, once he gets used to it, he finds the usual calm waves of pleasurable sensation to be the same as he previously reported. The muscle tension doesn't seem to go away with time, but he takes an ibuprofen and it's taken care of. It's a very calm mental state, and he certainly feels less depressed, but not more motivated. It occasionally feels like a more alert version of having a few beers, he explained. The sweet spot is at about 1200mg, if he had to guess, although he often starts with 600mg-800mg and redoses throughout the day. He has no trouble sleeping at this dose, in fact he will become a bit sleepy throughout the day during his euphoric moments. (Upon waking in the morning, he feels the previously described muscle tension and a bit of fatigue.) He feels, in general, a relaxed sociability with less of an urge to state his opinion when it's irrelevant and counter to his companions'. He also finds it much easier to write poetry or flowing prose, if the mood strikes. He doesn't recommend these doses to others, who may have a bad reaction. He believes his metabolism is, as he has said before, a bit unique. If one wants to try these things, he said he still feels that if one is on bupropion (zyban, wellbutrin) it blocks some of the pleasant feelings. He also says it's paramount to eat and drink water with large doses, as it prevents nausea. He and I occasionally have a laugh when I show him something from a site that says 400mg daily is an outrageous dose! Perhaps for some that is true, but he just shakes his head and smiles. Thank you for reading my friend's update, he has maintained his interest in this substance over the years. -ThC
