Re: addicitve rcs I have recently noticed that he is slowly becoming pyschologically addicted to methylone. he has been dosing himself close to four times a week and gets a tightness in his chest and some anxiety when he goes awhile without it. I used to only use this substance with his lady but has started using it on his own... I do not plan on ordering any more methylone but has noted how powerful his perception of the addiction is. I has kicked; morphine, cocaine, DXM habits and this one looks to be difficult... just something I thought he'd share. hes suffered no other addictive rc's but notes that he thinks 2c-b is comfortable enough to possibly form a habit... that is if one had time to invest in such a habit.
Re: addicitve rcs I thought we'd be hearing reports of this happening with M1. I just didn't know when. The tightness in the chest may well be due to the anxiety, which in turn may be due to depleted serotonin. Though M1 hasn't been researched too well, we do know it operates by the same mechanisms as MDMA on serotonin. And has dopaminergic effects similar to the amphetamines. So one who has managed to afford to overdo this can expect withdrawl similar to amphetamines, and anxiety and depression from the serotonin-depletion. From what has been seen so far, it should be of a moderate level. So I am advised to try to ride it out and stay away from further use, as I have stated is planned, and focus on eating a good diet with vitamins, getting proper sleep, and possibly taking some 5-HT - replacing supplements. Do ask SWIM to keep us posted on the ride. These reports may be very valuble in the near future.
Re: addicitve rcs Hmm. I know that the same potential for addiction with MDMA lies in methylone. Good that it's cost limits its abuse. 1Benzylpiperazine was alluring, particularly when combined with a low dose of 5meodipt. I was happy that ran out and became unavailable and destroyed all of the leftover BZP. No real value in that combo, though 5meodipt was interesting in its own bizarre way. MDPV has strongly habituating properties, and in appropriate doses, would easily lend itself to daily use. No withdrawals noted to either BZP or 5meodipt, though use was very frequent, sometimes daily. Kratom may be the next big monkey on people's backs though. Really lends itself to forming a habit and remaining functional.
Re: addicitve rcs That 'something' is a neurotransmitter called dopamine. Edit -- Nagognog2 mentioned it already (didn't see his post). But as a former coke fiend, I have learned to instantly recognize a substance that hits dopamine... increased sex drive is the most obvious sign. Quite honestly M1 seems to do it even moreso than coke, only with less norepinephrine effects (making it a lot less tweaky). In SWIM's opinion it stops hitting serotonin quite early, as in redose #1. At least it seemed to SWIM to lose any empath/entactogenic effects, and the dopamine effects to come front and center. It may resemble methcathinone more closely than MDMA. No rewiring involved, just simple (bio)chemistry. Cognitive rewiring takes time, but dopamine can cause immediate cravings for more {of whatever increases it or blocks its reuptake}.
Re: addicitve rcs Didn't notice this last time I posted. I used kratom heavily for over a year, and... yes, it's physically addictive if used multiple times daily for a month or longer. It takes three or four days of mild to moderate unpleasantness (mainly agitation and fatigue) to kick a heavy habit, followed by a week or two of depression which is mainly psychological, in SWIM's opinion. That's it. Much easier to kick than opiates or nicotine, more difficult than caffeine. In SWIM's experience, it's both possible and not a big problem to resume controlled use of kratom after kicking a physical addiction to it (whereas this would be almost impossible with opiates, at least without allowing a very long time to pass). There's essentially no such thing as kratom cravings. Really not a substance to worry about much, because most people won't use it often or long enough to become addicted. You almost have to work at it, to be honest (although the situation may be different for those who use kratom to kick opiates).
i was warning of the M1 issues about 2 years back, and as Nag said it only proved a matter of time. fortunately, M1 is often found to be selflimiting as far as addiction potential, as the negtives soon begin to outweigh the positives. first signs of chronic toxic overdosing brought on by morishness will be evidenced as nausea / vomiting the morning post consumption, yellowish circles in field of vision and a lasting chi burnout - 5-6 days post. M1 is not a kindler, gentler MDMA and for those concerned with empathogenic properties aka 'magic' - lemme just tellya, ephemeral is the word. will only be used as an acute psychological crisis therapeutic intevention tool - as i reckon it should. go low, go slow.
Well none of the literature concerning the Soviet use of AMT as an antidepressant made any note of addiction, which you'd think they would if any sort of physical dependance existed. I'm not refuting the psychological component as anything can become psychologically addictive, but physically? I've taken low dose AMT for prolonged periods as a self prescribed antidepressant and had no difficulty either physical or mental upon stopping and I know I have what would be classified as a tendancy towards addictive behaviour (I know what physical dependance is as I've had my brief run ins with the children of the poppy)
I haven't had any problems with RC's in the past, no more than 1 medium dose every week at the most. Recently, I tried 4-aco-dmt alot more. (even went so far as to inject ~14mg i.v. INCREDIBLE) SWIM first experienced 20mg insuffilated and this was an incredible intense peak. the next 4 days or so SWIM repeated doseing, haveing to steadily increase dose to get same effects until day 5 when 20mg was injested, followed by another 15mg several hours later, followed by another 20mg several hours later. I have never had such heavy use of an Research Chemical except maby AMT wich SWIM tends to freebase several hits, daily until gone. Even with P.Cubensis SWIM never did it more than once a week, thank goodness for Vitame C and its anti-oxidant effects.
I can easily see how M1 could be psychologically addictive - it has a tremendous dopaminergic push (e.g., bigger, better, faster, more!). However, I believe that it has a definite ceiling effect (which appears to differ from test subject to test subject), and no matter how much you want to extend the experience, either by redosing or extended consecutive days of use, there comes a point where you just can't take it any farther. I think that significantly limits its potential for physiological addiction. Most test subjects I know report only limited success w/ redosing, and require several days of rest between experiments in order to achieve a satisfactory experience. Nevertheless, that doesn't stop a lot of test subjects from exhausting their supply of M1 in a futile attempt to extend their experience. Dopamine is a harsh mistress.
Frankly, MDPV is even harsher. M1 is the "kinder/gentler" stimulant by far. MDPV is like the bastard with a whip you've got to obey or you get hurt. Then you obey and get hurt even worse. Finally, it's "Thank you sir may I have another... thank you sir, may I have another... thank you sir, may I have another..." and you wonder why you've come to enjoy feeling like shit nearly every waking moment. You vow never to touch MDPV again, then an hour or two after it wears off you find yourself eagerly using MDPV. Naah, M1 ain't nothin... it's practically gentle enough to pass along to the kiddies.
Interesting that you should bring up MDPV in relation to M1. They appear to be similar in many ways. I've heard that MDPV can be used instead of redosing to extend the M1 experience. Gotta watch the BP & heart rate though b/c they're both stims.
MDPV doesn't cause tachycardia very often, but probably does increase BP somewhat. It also induces a sort of 'plodding' heart rhythm that a frequent stimulant user will recognize... as if the heart is driven to beat at some fixed rate, rather than slower nor faster depending on conditions (as is normal).
first time doing ketamine SwIM had a cat that thought it was amazing! this wass of 'jackson labs" veternarian grade. amount injested was 50mg. The next day 200mg was injested and thethird day 250. 2 months went byandthen NEON labs HUMAN GRADE with MORE S(+)isomers arrived. this was the best! the imaginary feline did 50mg and was BLOWN AWAY by the intense psychadelic and stimulant effects noted! much higher than the previous time (the first time actually). this lead to a 5 day bender with 12 hour brakes for sleep between 400-500mg K was consumend in 4 or 5 doses. this resulted ina INTENSE COMPELLING to do more! Doing the last of the S(+) k 15mg of 4-aco-dmt was injested and an unknown amount that was residue on baggy was snorted (about 5mg or so) this led to an intense come down off the K and a healthy recovery trip afterwords. Hopefully more tequilah will lessen the hang over from k (increadible headache!) so more marijuana might need to be consumed afterwords. that's what the monky's kat friend of SWIM's said to her.
I had cravings to continue past day 3 of daily tolerance tests of 5-meo-mipt as it seemed to SWIM to enhance the 40mg D-amphetamine prescription I takes daily. SWIM just read brave new World agian had sex then went outside and farted loudly ... and that was that.
I have found methylone, 5meo-dmt and 5meo-dpt to be addictive in nature because I don't know when it is time to say stop. Especially with methylone, whose mellow pleasant buzz in which swim's still feels in total control. This misconception leads to more double dosing. 5meo-dmt is different in that it is such a powerful drug, with more eurphoric properties than most Research Chemicals The problem - a 20 minute buzz which leads to numerious double dosings until swims runs out. None of the 2Cs seem to be physically addictive.
I think that K of the human grade (more S(+) isomers) has to be the worst. This particular research chemical was developed by park davis (same company who invented PCP), it was discovered while trying to find a less addictive analog of PCP. Urge to do more rising! Too bad its so hard to come by good k...
I hate to bust your bubble, but ketamine is not a research chemical. It has been used in human and veterinary medicine for over 40 years.
ok fair enough my mistake i was confused to the classification of "research drug" meaning it can't be used in modern practices my bad. Then I feel 4-aco-dmt would be the most addictive TRue research chemical. sorry about the confusion :crazy
MDPV is by far the most addictive in the sense of cravings etc of everything coming under the 'RC' heading. The dopaminergic action makes the craving on a par with coke for some people...
